RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,214
Posts: 5,437,648
Members: 24,952
Currently online: 504
Newest member: secondhandmeth

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 13 2012, 04:40 PM   #1
Thorius
Ensign
 
"Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

So, I've been watching Voyager on Netflix for a few weeks, and have made it up to Season 4. I've just it to "Year of Hell, pt 1". My problem is, is it just me, or should this story arc have never happened?

Here's my reasoning:

In ep. "Before and After", we learn through Kes's time travelling that in about a year, Voyager encounter the species with the chroniton torpedoes (don't remember the name). Three or four episodes later, in "The Gift" (which was, I think, Ep. 2 of Season 4), Kes throws Voyager 10 years worth of distance in 3 seconds. Then, 3 or 4 episodes later, Voyager is encountering the Krenim. WTF? Shouldn't they have been thrown about 8 years' travel past Krenim space?

It's sort of like your driving from New York to California. I tell you you'll be attacked in 4 hours time, which might put you somewhere in Pennsylvania, depending on your route. I then use a transporter to send you to Illinois, where after an hour of driving, you're attacked by the exact people I'd said you'd be attacked by if you had just kept driving 4 hours from New York - even though that would have placed your attackers in PA.

I thought the whole *point* of The Gift was to have Kes throw them past the year of hell. Guess not. Anybody else get the impression that Voyager (and most ST episodes for that matter) were written by committee, with nobody tending to issues of continuity? I mean, I can overlook small things, but this is a very not small thing. These two episodes should have never happened.
Thorius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 04:45 PM   #2
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

"The Gift" threw them past Borg space, not Krenim space.

And Star Trek ships move at the speed of plot. The Romulan Neutral Zone can be five minutes from Earth in First Contact, and so distant to preclude real-time communication with Earth in "The Neutral Zone"
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 05:05 PM   #3
Thorius
Ensign
 
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
"The Gift" threw them past Borg space, not Krenim space.
No. Scorpion, Pts. 1 & 2 (which come almost right after "Before and After") revolved around them passing through Borg space.

It did throw them clear of Borg space, but certainly should have thrown them past the Krenim too, based on my previous reasoning. However, you're definitely right about ships moving at the speed of plot. I remember while watching DS9 (which was I think supposed to be one of the most distant outposts from earth, hence the "Deep Space" designation), there were some episodes where various crew members seem to shuttle back and forth to Earth in no time at all.

However, this doesn't seem to be a case of moving at the speed of plot - they move much faster than plot, then apparently backtracked so they could be attacked by the Krenim.
Thorius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 05:11 PM   #4
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

Maybe Kes returning from the future or forseeing it, changed the future? I dunno, Star Trek is full of these episodes in the future but when the future comes things don't turn out the way some particular episode revealed it to be.
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 05:13 PM   #5
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

The Krenim seemed to have disposed of or greatly reduced the Borg perhaps centuries earlier and taken most of Borg space for their own, and I doubt that Annorax would accept a galaxy as rightly shaped if it still had such an extreme Borg presence to his homeland.

In fact Krenim space was so large that we were still encountering formerly Krenim worlds as late as Virtuoso in season 6, if we are to accept that the repeat use of stock footage of a planet constitutes that those two worlds are the same world.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; March 13 2012 at 05:28 PM.
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 05:21 PM   #6
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

Ln X wrote: View Post
Maybe Kes returning from the future or forseeing it, changed the future? I dunno, Star Trek is full of these episodes in the future but when the future comes things don't turn out the way some particular episode revealed it to be.
Annorax was immortal, outside of time for 200 years, rewriting time thousands upon thousands of times before our story picked up.

In any timeline that Kes had Janeway avoid the krenim, it is a timeline where Janeway never stopped Annorax and he he was free to change the universe again to try and get his wife back once more.

Only in a timeline where Kes didn't warn Janeway about the krenim, becuase before and After never happened or happened differently, or Kes just didn't tell Janeway about it, could Voyager ever be put into a situation where they would first run foul of the Krenim and then run double foul of Annorx and them somehow succeed in stopping his shennigans for a tripple foul.

We missed the first 200 years of Annorax's personal adventure where Voyager and Janeway were an inconsequential pawn that mattered to their grand plan less than belly lint.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 06:11 PM   #7
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

Thorius wrote: View Post

No. Scorpion, Pts. 1 & 2 (which come almost right after "Before and After") revolved around them passing through Borg space.
Yeah, but their journey through Borg space was cut short by Species 8472's attack. At the end of the episode, they are still inside Borg territory.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 07:14 PM   #8
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

Basically the answer is that Voyager writers don't care about continuity, they've practically said it themselves. So don't expect any type of continuity to be applied to this series whatsoever. People will literally argue for days trying to apply some kind of internal logic that makes all these incongruous events match up. But the fact of the matter is "Year of Hell" was drawn up before Scorpion/Seven of Nine changed how season 3 would end/season 4 would begin. But it was a good story so the writers didn't want to abandon it so they just made it, continuity and logic be damned.
That's what Voyager is, its a collection of stories, not a cohesive show.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 08:30 PM   #9
Enterprise is Great
Rear Admiral
 
Enterprise is Great's Avatar
 
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

Just chalk it up to Annorax's timeline rewriting. Seven of Nine was in YOH but wasn't in Before and After so something was wonky with the timeline.
__________________
JJverse Star Trek...ROCKED on May 17, 2013 and beyond!
Enterprise is Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 09:08 PM   #10
Lindley
Moderator with a Soul
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

The simplest explanation is that if Kes hadn't thrown them 10000 LY closer to Earth, something else would have.
__________________
Lead Organizer for EVN: Firefly.
"So apparently the really smart zombies have automatic weapons!"
-Torg, Sluggy Freelance
Lindley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 10:05 PM   #11
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
"The Gift" threw them past Borg space, not Krenim space.

And Star Trek ships move at the speed of plot. The Romulan Neutral Zone can be five minutes from Earth in First Contact, and so distant to preclude real-time communication with Earth in "The Neutral Zone"
And then there's Qo'noS..
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 10:09 PM   #12
Kooz
Lieutenant
 
Location: Stamford, CT
View Kooz's Twitter Profile
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

I agree that it's a collection of stories that we have in Voyager, not a cohesive show. I think we all need to admit that by-and-large, the stories that are collected are pretty terrible. Not to get off on a tangent, but did anybody care about any of these characters?
__________________
Follow me!
Kooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 10:19 PM   #13
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

You're kidding right?
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 10:19 PM   #14
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

I don't feel that most Voyager stories are terrible at all, Voyager probably had the most unique concepts out of all Trek and even while I was watching and being disappointed by uneven character development and lack of continuity, I was constantly impressed that they kept coming up with really interesting story ideas that kept my attention even when other problems were present.
You can criticize a lot of aspects of the show and I know I do - especially in relation to its failure to fulfil its basic concept - but viewed as a show that explored various science fiction possibilities, it was pretty damned entertaining.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 10:20 PM   #15
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: "Year of Hell" pt. 1, 2 - what?

And if people don't like Picardo as the EMH well.. I don't know what to say. He's a breath of fresh air in Trek land IMHO.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.