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Old April 10 2012, 02:51 PM   #226
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

As a being with a pulse, I find any situation where Neelix even has the opportunity of making the beast with two backs to be repulsive.

If they force us to suffer mental images of that, then surely people can handle the thought of two hot guys going at it!
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Old April 10 2012, 03:28 PM   #227
Sindatur
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

teacake wrote: View Post
I just remembered the most repulsive "romance" in Trek. I must have blocked it from my mind because in a thousand shipper threads and threads that morphed into shipper threads it never entered my head.

Odo and the female founder's night of passion.
Night? They were squirreled away for days, and doing it "Solid Humanoid Style" was just a small period of that time, and she wasn't even impressed ("oh, that's all there is to it") as the "Changeling Linking" they were getting up to.

But, yea, definitely ICK
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Old April 10 2012, 04:44 PM   #228
Deckerd
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

You're all so shallow. Ugly people are allowed to do it too you know.
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Old April 10 2012, 04:53 PM   #229
Sindatur
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Deckerd wrote: View Post
You're all so shallow. Ugly people are allowed to do it too you know.
LOL, this coming from someone who implies Kate Beckinsale is a wrinkled old hag?

I'm not sure about anyone else, but, it has nothing to do on my end with their attractiveness, and, matter of fact is Kira/Odo is one of my favorite Trek Romances, as previously stated
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Last edited by Sindatur; April 11 2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old April 10 2012, 06:38 PM   #230
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Trek Survivor wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Beverly didn't want Odan because the new host was a woman and sex is an important part of any relationship. As a heterosexual woman, Beverly knew that that component of their relationship would not fulfil her and it would ultimately mean she could not be a fully happy woman.

It isn't fricking rocket science.
This, thank you!

It really annoys me when people say "oh, Beverley was obviously anti-lesbian in this scene" or that it showed intolerance, just because she didn't feel PERSONALLY that she wanted a lesbian relationship.

There are plenty of things I don't want for myself, or have no attraction to, but am fine with others pursuing. Doesn't mean I am "anti" any of them, they are just not for me.

Just because somebody does NOT want a gay relationship, doesn't mean they are "anti-gay"....
Well stated, Trek Survivor and You_Will_Fail. I was hoping someone would state the obvious. No one should force someone to be what they are not... whether gay or straight. On the other hand, we should not ignore the obvious. Whether because of several hosts or because Odan was now female, TNG's constant preaching of "we have evolved beyond prejudice" rings very hollow in light of Beverly's reaction to Odan.
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Old April 11 2012, 03:41 AM   #231
7thsealord
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Questionable (IMO) whether this would count as prejudice, strictly speaking. Could be that Bev simply didn't roll that way. Personal sexual preferences and orientations are, well, personal. Not like she disputed Odan's right to exist or tried to make him conform to her mindset - it was all simply too weird for her to deal with on a personal level. If it was someone she had to interact with on a purely professional level, probably no problem whatsoever.

Reverse the situation. Postulate that Odan began the episode in a female host. Supposing she and Bev had a relationship, and things otherwise went more or less the same plot-wise. Except .... that Odan winds up in a MALE host at the end.

If this hypothetical development was too much for that Bev and she broke things off, how many accusations of prejudice would people be making then?

Not intending to be inflammatory here, just a point to ponder.
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Old April 11 2012, 04:07 AM   #232
teacock
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Deckerd wrote: View Post
You're all so shallow.
:: nods ::
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Old April 11 2012, 04:55 AM   #233
Elias Vaughn
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Ugly people are allowed to do it too you know.
...we are?!

I have some calls to make!
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Old April 11 2012, 09:11 PM   #234
Ghost of Sector 7
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

7thsealord wrote: View Post
Questionable (IMO) whether this would count as prejudice, strictly speaking. Could be that Bev simply didn't roll that way. Personal sexual preferences and orientations are, well, personal. Not like she disputed Odan's right to exist or tried to make him conform to her mindset - it was all simply too weird for her to deal with on a personal level. If it was someone she had to interact with on a purely professional level, probably no problem whatsoever.

Reverse the situation. Postulate that Odan began the episode in a female host. Supposing she and Bev had a relationship, and things otherwise went more or less the same plot-wise. Except .... that Odan winds up in a MALE host at the end.

If this hypothetical development was too much for that Bev and she broke things off, how many accusations of prejudice would people be making then?

Not intending to be inflammatory here, just a point to ponder.
You do make a good point. My answer to your question is that- were the M/F roles reversed- it would still be prejudice. I am making that judgement based upon almost a decade of TNG monologues and diatribes about having evolved beyond prejudice... their own words condemn the reaction we see onscreen. IMHO, of course.
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Old April 11 2012, 11:51 PM   #235
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Not being prejudiced doesn't mean you have no sexual preferences. It's not like everyone turned pansexual thanks to the great human evolution, that has never been suggested.
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Old April 15 2012, 08:12 PM   #236
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

First Contact is on right now, and its just been the scene in Engineering when the Queen asks Data whether he's familiar with physical forms of pleasure, to which he replies he is fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Its just got me thinking, would that also cover same-sex relationships?
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Old April 15 2012, 08:24 PM   #237
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
First Contact is on right now, and its just been the scene in Engineering when the Queen asks Data whether he's familiar with physical forms of pleasure, to which he replies he is fully functional and programmed in multiple techniques.

Its just got me thinking, would that also cover same-sex relationships?
From what we've seen in the Trek universe to date? I'd say no.
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Old April 15 2012, 10:16 PM   #238
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

In some ways, it's always been about avoiding having a gay character "just because" and because of that they have always found it really hard to find a way to portray non-heterosexuality in the show.

Despite being a heterosexual man, I'd welcome the addition of sexual variation into Star Trek - but only if it's done in a way in which non-heterosexualty is seen as being just as normal as heterosexuality. I mentioned in a previous thread about this subject one of the ways in which they could portray this:

What happens is you would take one character, male or female and they would be discussing the reunion they are about to have with their significant other with other characters, who aren't aware that the character had a partner (nor of the character's sexuality). The SO would have a gender neutral name such as Alex and when "Alex" enters the scene as a member of the same sex as their partner, the other characters wouldn't bat an eyelid and simply act as anyone would when meeting the partner of a friend.
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Old April 15 2012, 10:49 PM   #239
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Admiral M wrote: View Post
In some ways, it's always been about avoiding having a gay character "just because" and because of that they have always found it really hard to find a way to portray non-heterosexuality in the show.

Despite being a heterosexual man, I'd welcome the addition of sexual variation into Star Trek - but only if it's done in a way in which non-heterosexualty is seen as being just as normal as heterosexuality. I mentioned in a previous thread about this subject one of the ways in which they could portray this:

What happens is you would take one character, male or female and they would be discussing the reunion they are about to have with their significant other with other characters, who aren't aware that the character had a partner (nor of the character's sexuality). The SO would have a gender neutral name such as Alex and when "Alex" enters the scene as a member of the same sex as their partner, the other characters wouldn't bat an eyelid and simply act as anyone would when meeting the partner of a friend.

Well, it's long past the point where having a gay character would be seen as doing it "just because," nor would it be seen as that big of a deal. At this point, they're so far behind this on Trek that the only way TO portray it would be to do so casually. They're not in a position to pat themselves on the back anymore.
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Old April 15 2012, 11:27 PM   #240
Nightdiamond
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

It's like it's almost too late now. TV has changed so much that Trek has more to worry about surviving and what format it will take, than who to portray.

I don't think it's Trek's responsibility to portray same sex couples at all. But, considering Trek's claim of a really tolerant and open minded society in the future, it's reasonable to expect to see it. It gives comfort knowing that Trek is truly living up to ideals.

Cause if you don't see anything, then fans are inevitably going to joke, 'there are no gays at all' in Trek's society.

I'm heterosexual too, but like the other fans you can't help but notice the sheer absence of same sex couples, when theoretically, it should be easy to do it, if only for a second.

I suspect, that broadcast TV viewers have Trek (TPTB) in a vice grip. Every time they approach this idea, even in metaphor, there is angry mail.

It's not free the way a cable show is, and the way they can thumb their noses up at convention and show what they want--and get ratings.
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