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Old April 3 2012, 12:16 PM   #196
Therin of Andor
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

BillJ wrote: View Post
But there is disappointment in Crusher's voice as she deals with the new host and she didn't have any problem jumping from Odan to Riker...
Because she thought she could handle one or two jumps to new hosts, but enough was enough. It was not an anti-lesbian scene.
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Old April 3 2012, 12:50 PM   #197
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

teacake wrote: View Post
A lot more chemistry in the friendship than Kira had with her Bajoran lovers.

Now that's something I'd missed. I'll watch DS9 differently from now on.
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Old April 3 2012, 02:05 PM   #198
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But there is disappointment in Crusher's voice as she deals with the new host and she didn't have any problem jumping from Odan to Riker...
Because she thought she could handle one or two jumps to new hosts, but enough was enough. It was not an anti-lesbian scene.
It's all up to personal interpretation. But it's not sadness in Crusher's voice... it's disappointment.

You pair that up with Trek's long running lack of gay people and...

Well you're part of the education system and know deep down that 2+2=4.
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Old April 3 2012, 02:16 PM   #199
Therin of Andor
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

BillJ wrote: View Post
Well you're part of the education system and know deep down that 2+2=4.
So "it's all up to personal interpretation", but you've interpreted for me?

According to interviews and convention appearances, your interpretation is not the way Gates McFadden interpreted her script, nor is it the way she played the scene.
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Old April 3 2012, 02:31 PM   #200
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Well you're part of the education system and know deep down that 2+2=4.
So "it's all up to personal interpretation", but you've interpreted for me?

According to interviews and convention appearances, your interpretation is not the way Gates McFadden interpreted her script, nor is it the way she played the scene.
The way it comes off on-screen is as disappointment. But McFadden was a pretty lousy actress...
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Old April 3 2012, 04:35 PM   #201
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

I definitely agree, Kira had more chemistry with Jadzia, then with anyone else. The scene in the Holosuite at the Trill Spa, I really got the impression Kira was more jealous of the Trill Buff Boys being around taking Jadzia's attention away, then that she was a stick in the mud that didn't know how to relax and enjoy herself

Yes, Odo and Lwaxana were truly awesome in her first DS9 episode, that's actually probably my favorite "Romance of the Week" Trek episodes (though the writers really did some awful plots for her return episodes ). I definitely would've liked to see more episodes like that one with Lwaxana and Odo.
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Old April 3 2012, 09:57 PM   #202
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Yes, Odo and Lwaxana were truly awesome in her first DS9 episode, that's actually probably my favorite "Romance of the Week" Trek episodes (though the writers really did some awful plots for her return episodes ).
The Forsaken is my favourite Lwaxana episode. It's sad that most other writers just didn't know what to do with her and used her merely for comic relief. She had so much more potential.
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Old April 3 2012, 10:38 PM   #203
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

In "The Host", I always thought that it was because of the uncertainty of what might come next that had Beverly turn away from Odan. She had already had him in two hosts, a third (and also the possibility of a fourth, etc) could just be too much for her to really deal with.

We all know that Beverly is heterosexual (she has the uber-annoying son to prove that) so for her a relationship with a female host--even of a being she truely cared for--was just a step too far for her.

That's how I always viewed the episode--although DS9 would later go on with aspects of Trill society that would make Odan/Riker's relationship a taboo subject.

Edit - An idea had just occured to me. I think "The Host" could have been a far more interesting episode (with longer-reaching consequences) if it had been Picard that had volunteered to host Odan. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.
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Old April 3 2012, 10:42 PM   #204
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

There have been many gay characters in Trek.

Xon was gay. Captain Desoto was gay. Ensign Sonya Gomez was gay. Mr Mot was Omni, Lt Hawk was gay. The bearded guy that took the wheel on the Holodeck HMS Enterprise during Worf's promotion to commander was gay. To name just handful.

They just didn't go on about it
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Old April 4 2012, 02:06 AM   #205
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Beverly didn't want Odan because the new host was a woman and sex is an important part of any relationship. As a heterosexual woman, Beverly knew that that component of their relationship would not fulfil her and it would ultimately mean she could not be a fully happy woman.

It isn't fricking rocket science.
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Old April 4 2012, 02:29 AM   #206
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Beverly didn't want Odan because the new host was a woman and sex is an important part of any relationship. As a heterosexual woman, Beverly knew that that component of their relationship would not fulfil her and it would ultimately mean she could not be a fully happy woman.

It isn't fricking rocket science.
No, it isn't. It's an opinion. Which means pretty much zilch to anyone else.
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Old April 4 2012, 07:04 AM   #207
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

After meeting the the female Odan, her reaction was pretty cool and detached. Later she even admitted to her, that it was too much.

At this point, it gets interesting because the viewer is left to decide for themselves whether she meant Odan being female, or the frequent changing of bodies.

Considering how her face changed when she saw it was female, it's easy to conclude that Beverly had a strong sexual preference.

The thing is, the female Odan wanted to pursue a relationship Beverly- and she did kiss her hand affectionately, which is pretty 'big' for TNG, IMO.
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Old April 4 2012, 02:52 PM   #208
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Beverly didn't want Odan because the new host was a woman and sex is an important part of any relationship. As a heterosexual woman, Beverly knew that that component of their relationship would not fulfil her and it would ultimately mean she could not be a fully happy woman.

It isn't fricking rocket science.
This, thank you!

It really annoys me when people say "oh, Beverley was obviously anti-lesbian in this scene" or that it showed intolerance, just because she didn't feel PERSONALLY that she wanted a lesbian relationship.

There are plenty of things I don't want for myself, or have no attraction to, but am fine with others pursuing. Doesn't mean I am "anti" any of them, they are just not for me.

Just because somebody does NOT want a gay relationship, doesn't mean they are "anti-gay"....
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Old April 4 2012, 07:35 PM   #209
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
After meeting the the female Odan, her reaction was pretty cool and detached. Later she even admitted to her, that it was too much.

At this point, it gets interesting because the viewer is left to decide for themselves whether she meant Odan being female, or the frequent changing of bodies.

Considering how her face changed when she saw it was female, it's easy to conclude that Beverly had a strong sexual preference.

The thing is, the female Odan wanted to pursue a relationship Beverly- and she did kiss her hand affectionately, which is pretty 'big' for TNG, IMO.
Yes... I agree that being seemingly 'disappointed' with the new host being a woman probably put a damp on how we saw Beverly as a person.
It was a bit hypocritical after all of her that she was able to sleep with Riker (albeit with 'some' persuasion) and not with Odan's female host though.
However, we can also view it in a manner that seeing the female host struck her at how she behaved in a hypocritical manner (by sleeping with Riker while the ambassador was in his body) - but it does indicate her sexual orientation was leaning very strongly in the direction of the opposite sex (hence less inhibition).
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Old April 5 2012, 04:54 AM   #210
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Deks wrote: View Post
It was a bit hypocritical after all of her that she was able to sleep with Riker (albeit with 'some' persuasion) and not with Odan's female host though.
Not really. Beverly is a heterosexual woman. Of course she'd find it difficult to find her lover had suddenly changed genders. When we ask for gay characters on Trek we're not asking that everyone be gay- just someone.
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