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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old January 17 2012, 04:21 AM   #1
Tidus79001
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DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

It is the only Star Trek series that I turned off during the pilot episode because it was so awful. I never watched the series after that. I have only seen a handful of DS9 episodes. I saw the finale when it aired & it was insultingly dumb, and it wasn't just me who had that exact same sentiment. Every time I watch DS9 it makes me cringe & not want to see more of it.

They had no ship, and just sat on a space station. Sitting of the Station week after week was big turn off. That worked out so well for the series that by season 3 they added the Defiant to help out the serious flagging DS9 series. DS9 was so awful it was the first & only Star Trek series that hired an actor from a previous series (Michael Dorn) to reprise their character role (Worf) as permanent cast member addition. I was shocked that the writers felt that a Star Trek show didn’t need a real ship for exploration & wasn’t surprised that by season 3 they introduced the Defiant as a ship permanently assigned to Deep Space Nine (the runabout idea was a really seemed like someone’s idea of a bad joke since it really wasn’t designed for long range deep space exploration nor was it capable of real defense of the space station).
Now that DS9 is on Netflix I have tried to watch it again. I have gotten 12 episodes in & they are just awful. Even mediocre would be a huge improvement for DS9.
I will give Deep Space Nine credit that once the Defiant was introduced they did encounter more new alien races & explore more that The Next Generation.
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Old January 17 2012, 04:27 AM   #2
Skywalker
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Skip ahead to "The Way of the Warrior" and watch from there.
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Old January 17 2012, 04:31 AM   #3
Tidus79001
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Skip ahead to "The Way of the Warrior" and watch from there.
I do appreciate the advice, but I am a completest. I will just have to grin & bear it until the hopefully the episodes get better if they ever do.
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Old January 17 2012, 04:58 AM   #4
Navaros
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
Ia Star Trek show didn’t need a real ship for exploration
...they did encounter more new alien races & explore more that The Next Generation.
TNG has very little exploration. Most of it is just talk inside of the Enterprise; exploration is largely irrelevant.

How many TNG episodes are about holodeck nonsense, or space disease of the week nonsense, or other such filler drivel, the likes of which TOS would never dare do? A crap-ton, at least.

TOS is a show about exploration; TNG only has TOS-like pretense of exploration.

A lot of your points are correct, though.

The DS9 pilot is boring.

Many/most of DS9's episodes from Season 1 are boring and not very good --- but that is only because they are exactly the same as TNG.

DS9 became great right after it abandoned TNG's very bad formula.

If one wants to nitpick, both shows can be nitpicked, but TNG would lose out badly in a contest vs. DS9 in terms of dramatic quality. I.e. TNG has almost no character development, almost no story development, almost no conflict among the crew (which is dramatically fatal), etc.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:23 AM   #5
Leroy
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Tidus79001 wrote:
It is the only Star Trek series that I turned off during the pilot episode because it was so awful. I never watched the series after that. I have only seen a handful of DS9 episodes. I saw the finale when it aired & it was insultingly dumb, and it wasn't just me who had that exact same sentiment. Every time I watch DS9 it makes me cringe & not want to see more of it.
Hard to judge DS9 as being worst ever when you openly admit you haven't seen hardly any of it. What was so insulting about the finale? DS9 hardly has the worst pilot that honor goes to 'Encounter at Farpoint' and if you want to be insulted check out 'These are the Voyages'.
Tidus79001 wrote:
They had no ship, and just sat on a space station. Sitting of the Station week after week was big turn off. That worked out so well for the series that by season 3 they added the Defiant to help out the serious flagging DS9 series.
There are story reasons why they added the starship Defiant it wasn't because the show was "flagging".
Tidus79001 wrote:
DS9 was so awful it was the first & only Star Trek series that hired an actor from a previous series (Michael Dorn) to reprise their character role (Worf) as permanent cast member addition.
Deciding to add a cast member from a previous show is not an indicator of low quality plenty of spin-offs do this.
Tidus79001 wrote:
I was shocked that the writers felt that a Star Trek show didn’t need a real ship for exploration & wasn’t surprised that by season 3 they introduced the Defiant as a ship permanently assigned to Deep Space Nine (the runabout idea was a really seemed like someone’s idea of a bad joke since it really wasn’t designed for long range deep space exploration nor was it capable of real defense of the space station).
The writers are right you don't need a fancy ship to explore since there is more than one kind of exploration, exploration of humanity and interacting with all the various alien cultures that travel to the station as opposed to the tired planet of the week setup.

The crew had no need of the Defiant early on because their mission did not require one for defensive or exploration as they were supposed to assist the planet Bajor and there were no threats from the Gamma quadrant yet.
Tidus79001 wrote:
I have gotten 12 episodes in & they are just awful. Even mediocre would be a huge improvement for DS9.
I will give Deep Space Nine credit that once the Defiant was introduced they did encounter more new alien races & explore more that The Next Generation.
I admit that the first season (aside from 'Duet' one of the best episodes of the whole franchise) that the first season is extremely weak. Most of your gripes hinge on lack of a starship which is superficial at best and are addressed as of the third season.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:37 AM   #6
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Maybe Voyager is more your speed, then...
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Old January 17 2012, 05:38 AM   #7
Skywalker
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

od0_ital wrote: View Post
Maybe Voyager is more your speed, then...
It would certainly explain his avatar.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:39 AM   #8
You_Will_Fail
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Voyager explored all over the damn shop and gave us a fun sci-fi story each week. Good enough for switching the TV on and being entertained for an hour. But where was the depth? Voyager was flying through alien space and none of the races or civilizations they came across were fleshed out or explored in any detail. Isn't exploration more than just about finding things and moving on? Would James Cook have been so famous if he'd just made some maps and hadn't explored botany bay and recorded all the wonderful new creatures and plantlife to be found?

DS9 had its fair share of weird alien races and fun sci-fi stories of the week. But most importantly it had depth. We started out with one-dimensional alien races - The Cardassians, The Bajorans, the Ferengi - and by the end, we feel we know them. DS9 is all about not just discovering but fleshing out, exploring in more detail, going beneath the surface and that's why its still a very critically revered science-fiction show, because at the end we feel like we've learned so much about the Star Trek universe and the characters we've spent 7 years with.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:42 AM   #9
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
That worked out so well for the series that by season 3 they added the Defiant to help out the serious flagging DS9 series. DS9 was so awful it was the first & only Star Trek series that hired an actor from a previous series (Michael Dorn) to reprise their character role (Worf) as permanent cast member addition.
It's one thing to have your own opinion, but here you're attributing opinions to others and making up unfounded stories about what happened behind the scenes. The decisions to introduce the Defiant and Worf had nothing to do with "serious flagging" or "awfulness".

And it's not true that Worf was the first and only time they decided to use a previous series' actor and character. This was exactly the plan for Star Trek: Phase 2, and what DS9 had planned to do with Ro Laren and did do with O'Brien from the very start, and Voyager did it with Robert Duncan McNeil (who was supposed to be Nick Locarno from TNG). I fail to see why you think this is a sign of awfulness.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:42 AM   #10
Jono
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
I will give Deep Space Nine credit that once the Defiant was introduced they did encounter more new alien races & explore more that The Next Generation.
Then shouldn't you be declaring "TNG = WORST Star Trek Series EVER"?

I actually felt the same about DS9 when it aired. I watched the pilot and it did nothing for me. The only bit I liked was the cool battle with the Borg at the beginning, I'm not sure if they ever had something like that before, but it was the first time I'd seen it. I didn't bother with it afterward and over the years I caught one or two episodes, including "The Way of the Warrior" nor did that draw me in (though I wasn't much of a Worf fan). It was seeing the season 5 finale that finally drew me in and I've come to appreciate the show. It might not happen for you, but I hope it does because otherwise you would have wasted 100+ hr on something you already hated...which in turn, would also be kind of funny that you willingly tortured yourself.

Good luck watching the show and I hope it grows on you.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:50 AM   #11
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Continuing to watch and post about a show one hates seems to me an odd use of one's time.
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Old January 17 2012, 08:01 AM   #12
Tidus79001
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Leroy wrote: View Post
Hard to judge DS9 as being worst ever when you openly admit you haven't seen hardly any of it.
I have seen enough over the years to know that everytime I turn & try to watch it on it makes me turn it off again because it stinks that bad

Leroy wrote: View Post
The writers are right you don't need a fancy ship to explore...
Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
They had no ship, and just sat on a space station. Sitting of the Station week after week was big turn off. That worked out so well for the series that by season 3 they added the Defiant
Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated. If the writer were right about not needing a ship then why after 2 season did the suddenly add the defiant. They realized they made a big mistake that was hurting the rating of the show. When major changes are made to revamp a series such as adding a new ship, or hiring a actor from a previous series (Michael Dorn) to reprise their character role (Worf) as permanent cast member addition that is a sign the a show is flagging.

Leroy wrote: View Post
Deciding to add a cast member from a previous show is not an indicator of low quality plenty of spin-offs do this.
Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
Adding, or replacing a cast member with one from a previous series is & remains a DS9 exclusive.
DS9 is the only Star Trek series in history to have done this.

Leroy wrote: View Post
...there is more than one kind of exploration, exploration of humanity and interacting with all the various alien cultures that travel to the station as opposed to the tired planet of the week setup.
Oh puke. I had enough of the touch-feely exploration of the inner depths of our feeling from watching TNG (why didn't they just phase Deanna Tori into sub atomic particles).

Last edited by Tidus79001; January 17 2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old January 17 2012, 08:04 AM   #13
Tidus79001
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

od0_ital wrote: View Post
Maybe Voyager is more your speed, then...
Yep you got it right. Voyager is among some of the best Star Trek ever produced. Right up the with the likes of the Star Trek: The Original Series.

Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
Voyager was the series that got Star Trek back to its roots of exploring strange new world, to seeking out new life and new civilizations and boldly going where no one had gone before.
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Old January 17 2012, 08:08 AM   #14
Tidus79001
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Jono wrote: View Post
Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
I will give Deep Space Nine credit that once the Defiant was introduced they did encounter more new alien races & explore more that The Next Generation.
Then shouldn't you be declaring "TNG = WORST Star Trek Series EVER"?

I actually felt the same about DS9 when it aired. I watched the pilot and it did nothing for me. The only bit I liked was the cool battle with the Borg at the beginning, I'm not sure if they ever had something like that before, but it was the first time I'd seen it. I didn't bother with it afterward and over the years I caught one or two episodes, including "The Way of the Warrior" nor did that draw me in (though I wasn't much of a Worf fan). It was seeing the season 5 finale that finally drew me in and I've come to appreciate the show. It might not happen for you, but I hope it does because otherwise you would have wasted 100+ hr on something you already hated...which in turn, would also be kind of funny that you willingly tortured yourself.

Good luck watching the show and I hope it grows on you.
Worst is such a relative term. TNG was boring and the cast for the crew was bland. DS9 on the other had was just painful to watch (it was Star Trek in name only), and the crew was just plain annoying & unlikeable. I would rather be subjected to 7 seasons of TNG as opposed to watching even half a season of DS9.
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Old January 17 2012, 08:12 AM   #15
Tidus79001
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Re: DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Continuing to watch and post about a show one hates seems to me an odd use of one's time.
I am trying to give DS9 a fair second chance by watching it now that the entire series is available on Netflix streaming. I am a completionist, and like see the entire picture. Since there is so much cross referencing in Star Trek one really needs to be familiar with all of the series so as to not be lost.
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