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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old March 1 2012, 05:12 AM   #1
SPEKTRE76
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Location: Whidbey Island, WA
Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

I know there are many geek cultures out there and beliefs. So, please keep an open mind and also that this is in my own opinion.
  1. Get rid of the hokiness!
  2. Come down to earth.
  3. Real military terminology.
  4. Real scientific terminology.
  5. Needs to be dark and gritty.
  6. Aliens need to look like aliens and......
  7. Timeline progression through seasons.
  8. Character development.
  9. Ships need to look like science/military vessels inside and out.
  10. Uniforms, I am 15 years ex-Navy don't get me started..oops too late!
  11. Officers and ENLISTED please! Special forces away teams! Contractors
  12. Sound does not travel in space!
Okay ladies, gentlemen and others; let me explain myself.
Let's talk about

#1, hokiness. I feel that a lot of Sci-Fi shows are campy and don't really try too hard to be serious or realistic in nature. I guess you can say that my number one statement covers all the ones below it however I will explain each individually. One example is using fooking crystals to power a starship!

#2 Another thing is what is seen 'on screen' when traveling faster than light. You can't see fracking stars whiz by. In fact the whole image would look like a 'fisheye' 17mm camera lens. There would be a sphere of a bubble like image that will be more red in color and everything else stretching around it in a blue shift. Watch Carl Sagan's videos on light speed travel on YouTube. It should take some time to go to "warp speed". You shouldn't just zip out in a flash just because it looks cool. Not to mention the ship would rip apart and your skeletons would liquefy. Warp shouldn't be a speed. Perhaps more like bending space time like in 'Event Horizon'. The term 'warp' should be a factor of the space/time dilation (gravity well curvature).

#3 Motherfrackers need to have some military bearing! The Star Trek universe (God rest it's soul) is much like the US Naval universe. So, tradition is very strong with us. We still use terms like 'shipmate' and 'aye aye'. Were also not mambi pambi either even though we practice professionalism and political correctness. Correct names for areas of the ship like C.I.C. (Combat Information Center) or the J.I.C. (Joint Information Center). Those are not all in one place like on the NCC-1701D's bridge. The bridge is where the Capt. sits and a Lieutenant gives some poor 'boot' orders on where to sail the ship. Also there aren't any frigg'n bars on the ship and the idea of a Holo-deck just makes me nauseated. Holograms are just images made of light from refracting images off to dissimilar opposing mirrors to give a very crude 3D effect. They need to have something like the 'Matrix' had except with no head penetration, LOL.

#4 They need to use a lot more of today's terminology and maybe make up some of their own and in the show develop on how that principal came to be. "Beam me up" is not a scientific term of any means.

#5 they show needs to be dark and gritty like the movie 'The Hurt Locker' mixed in with some 'Battle Los Angeles' and a little bit of 'Tron (2011)' without all the neon and some 'Southland'.

#6 Do aliens need to look like people in Halloween costumes? We should see the Annunaki and the Grey's. There needs to be an element to the show that is tied to this and a big one. In fact make t the reason for "Boldly going where no man has gone before". We could be on a trek for the roots of our beginnings and gain an understanding of the universe. We shouldn't automatically hear English speaking aliens from the first time we meet them. In fact there should be a cryptology team on-board that has to research the new found aliens communication means. I could go on and on about this.

#7 Season 1 should start somewhere in the late 21st century like say 2076 or something. Every hundred years should be at least 3 seasons of 25 episodes. We should get to see how interstellar relationships are formed and new technologies found and discovered. In fact the United Federation of Planets shouldn't even exist until season seven at least. The first 5 episodes of season one should focus on the development and history and the agency should be something like the International Deep Space Exploration Agency (I.D.S.E.A.). This should all start with the planting of the first flag on Mars and then move forward from the year 2035 to 2076 where between special events in space exploration history the scene cuts to a class room at the Annapolis, MD US Naval Air and Space Academy in the year 2076 where the proctor is speaking in the third person of how it all came to be like a memory flash back. He could have been a ground controller that got to have a really nice seat to watch it all. And he can be a guest instructor who is in is early sixties.

# 8 Tell us how these people came to be! This should also be an ongoing process to keep people intrigued.

#9 Sorry, but the Enterprise looks cheesy and dated. The ships need to look more military/scientific and FUNCTIONAL to boot. In fact they should be saucer like as seen in the movie Independence Day. Another good example is the large ship in the movie Alien Resurrection.

#10 Uniforms especially working uniforms are not cheesy jumpsuits with communicators that are the logo of the show. The dress uniforms are cheesy as well. And we don't (US Navy) go out on patrol in are fracking whites. We wear cammo and more tactical survival clothing. I will need to sketch up what I mean and add it to this post. Oh one thing off subject. The weapons need to look like weapons and NOT something out of a video game or something you would shave your gonads with.

#11 Where I come from Officers are not technicians and they don't fix anything. And since when is there only one Chief Petty Officer on a ship? There need to be First Class Petty Officers and on down the line. We also need a Navy SEAL element to the crew and use them for away missions NOT THE FOOKING upper chain-of-command, get real! What about astrophysicsist' contractors and nuclear engineers maintenance techs, PMC companies, archeologists, geologist's, medical staff not just one fooking doctor! And engineering is more than 10 people, sorry, I have personally seen it. I have my ESWS and my EAWS pin for frack sake.

#12 No-brainer you don't hear sh!@ in space. Thankfully they realized this in the 2009 Star Trek movie.

Okay guys there is my mini rant. I will do some sketching over the weekend to further illustrate my feelings.

Last edited by SPEKTRE76; March 1 2012 at 08:28 AM.
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Old March 1 2012, 07:10 AM   #2
zar
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

#2: The whole point of "warp" is so we can step outside of what is thought to be possible with known physics. Warp happens in subspace, not normal space, and since subspace is a fictional invention, it can more or less look however they want it to (the "stars" are not necessarily actually stars). If anything, perhaps "full impulse" should take pointers from Carl Sagan's video, as it's about what would happen near the speed of light in normal space.

Regarding "warp shouldn't be a speed": Well, speed is distance per time, and regardless of what occurs during warp, the end result is you're in a new point in space whose distance from your previous point depends on how much relative time you spent in warp... so it's a speed, right?


#4: We use unscientific terms to describe things that involve technologically complex processes all the time. For example, "posting". The internet is complicated, but it's a normal part of life. It was a conscience decision from the start for Star Trek's characters not to talk scientifically about things that are normal for them, because it wouldn't make sense.


#9: How does a ship "look military/scientific"? At one point military was a wooden catapult and scientific was a sundial. Basing a ship design based on current "realistic" standards leads to the very cheesiness you want to avoid. The cheesiest part of the original Enterprise is the satellite-dish-looking deflector, and that's because it was based on what looked "high tech" at the time. Artistic license is better than realism.
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Old March 1 2012, 07:49 AM   #3
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
The weapons need to look like weapons and something out of a video game or something you would shave your gonads with.
The weapons need to look like both?

Makes me wonder what kind of landscaping goes on in the 24the century. A phaser would be handy for that kind of thing, right?
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Old March 1 2012, 08:23 AM   #4
SPEKTRE76
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
The weapons need to look like weapons and something out of a video game or something you would shave your gonads with.
The weapons need to look like both?

Makes me wonder what kind of landscaping goes on in the 24the century. A phaser would be handy for that kind of thing, right?

Good catch, no that's a type 'o'. I meant 'not look like'.
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Old March 1 2012, 08:24 AM   #5
SPEKTRE76
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

zar wrote: View Post
#2: #9: How does a ship "look military/scientific"? At one point military was a wooden catapult and scientific was a sundial. Basing a ship design based on current "realistic" standards leads to the very cheesiness you want to avoid. The cheesiest part of the original Enterprise is the satellite-dish-looking deflector, and that's because it was based on what looked "high tech" at the time. Artistic license is better than realism.
I don't mean look like aircraft carriers of today. Just what would be plauseable in the late 21st century which is where I'd like the series to begin.

Oh and your point on warp as well taken. I should have said 'near the speed of light'.

I also think the discovery of warp itself should be developed over a few episodes unlike Star Trek-First Contact where all we saw was the end result of warp 1.

Last edited by SPEKTRE76; March 1 2012 at 08:35 AM.
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Old March 1 2012, 10:27 AM   #6
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
#4 They need to use a lot more of today's terminology and maybe make up some of their own and in the show develop on how that principal came to be. "Beam me up" is not a scientific term of any means.
Yeah, you see, when people use equipment, they have shorthand and jargon.

Don't you know this? Weren't you in the armed forces?

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Annunaki and the Grey's.
SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Every hundred years should be at least 3 seasons of 25 episodes.



SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
#9 Sorry, but the Enterprise looks cheesy and dated. The ships need to look more military/scientific and FUNCTIONAL to boot. In fact they should be saucer like as seen in the movie Independence Day. Another good example is the large ship in the movie Alien Resurrection.
So, you want a ship that's like, a big... saucer?

With... outboard engines?

So basically... the Enterprise?
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Old March 1 2012, 09:54 PM   #7
nightwind1
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

As a former US Coast Guard Petty Officer, I disagree with nearly everything you've written her.

Starfleet is NOT the US Navy or Coast Guard (though it is closer to CG than Navy). So there is no reason all of the terminology, layout of the different areas of the ship, etc., should be the same. We got that on nuBSG, and I HATED it. I didn't like that the Galactica had a 1MC sound-powered phone, that people wore frikkin' TIES, that the deck apes had uniforms that looked like they could be off of a US aircraft carrier, or a lot of other early-21st-Century crap they had on that show, so I sure as heck wouldn't want it in Trek.
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Old March 1 2012, 09:56 PM   #8
zar
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
I don't mean look like aircraft carriers of today. Just what would be plauseable in the late 21st century which is where I'd like the series to begin.
You still need to choose between reality and art. Since we aren't living in the late 21st century, 21st-century technology isn't going to look like our reality. How do you know what would be plausible?

Can you explain how the Independence Day saucers look more "military/scientific and functional" than the Enterprise?
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Old March 1 2012, 09:56 PM   #9
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Get rid of the hokiness!
Depends. Campiness, no. But a return to the old-fashioned corniness of TOS? That could work.

Come down to earth.
Does this have something to do with warp speed? The audience doesn't care - warp speed is just something that makes the ships go from one place where the story is happening to another place where the story continues. Details beyond that is a waste of everybody's time.

Real military terminology.
If you mean "plausible" and ratchet back the silly babble, fine.

Real scientific terminology.
Ditto as per above.

Needs to be dark and gritty.
Aboard a Klingon ship, yes. But Starfleet is bright and clean. This is an aesthetic call for the set designers.

Aliens need to look like aliens
Since Star Trek can only survive on cable nowadays and cable audiences aren't used to or likely to tolerate weird and silly looking forehead aliens, I'll agree with this.

Timeline progression through seasons.
The episodes should be serialized, either entirely or partially, because that's the expectations of the cable audience for drama. Other than that, I don't care if episodes are separated by a day or a year, but the convention of one episode = one week because that's how they're shown seems good enough. If the story demands adjustments (four episodes that happen back to back in time, or a jump of more than a year between seasons), then follow what works for the story.

Character development.
Definitely.

Ships need to look like science/military vessels inside and out.
To the extent anyone know what they're supposed to look like centuries from now.

Uniforms, I am 15 years ex-Navy don't get me started..oops too late!
My pet peeve is the lack of technology integrated into clothing. Within our own lifetimes, we'll probably see stuff like heads-up displays integrated into eyeglasses (with ads for nearby stores, directional maps, and overlays that turn mundane environments into gameplay zones). Starfleet uniforms should be bristling with techno-gadgets to help personnel do their jobs - and be safer! - miniaturized to such an extent that they might not even be evident.

Sending people into battle wearing pajamas is okay if the pajama fabric is wonderfully lightweight, yet tougher than Kevlar. If they can fly all over the galaxy, they can make fabric like that. And what about personal shields? Spaceships are shielded but not people? That doesn't send a very good message to the troops.

Why not have fabrics that morph to camouflage the wearer (a camo pattern is a very low tech solution - why not go for total invisibility?) and then switch back to something "nicer" for off-duty wear? There's no reason a given set of clothes needs to look the same all day long.

But as to style, I like the late DS9 style of uniform with the purple-grey yokes and colors along the collar. If we're assuming that fabric technology will progress to a point that aesthetics don't need to be compromised by technological or practical considerations, then why not go for the most stylish look, according to the tastes of the time?

Officers and ENLISTED please! Special forces away teams! Contractors
The audience doesn't care about details like that, and contractors don't exist because profit motive doesn't exist. Well maybe some in the 23rd C. But Starfleet shouldn't need to use contractors, at least not for their major missions of exploration and defense.

Sound does not travel in space!
Nooooobody cares.
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Old March 2 2012, 12:16 AM   #10
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

zar wrote: View Post
Can you explain how the Independence Day saucers look more "military/scientific and functional" than the Enterprise?
It's cause they have more tiny blue lights than the Enterprise.
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Old March 2 2012, 01:05 AM   #11
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
  1. Needs to be dark and gritty.
This alone tells me you don't understand what Star Trek is.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Last edited by RandyS; March 2 2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old March 2 2012, 02:11 AM   #12
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

"Dark and gritty" is one of those phrases that's been ground into meaninglessness by studio press releases. It means about as much to me as "high-concept" and "we're very excited about...".
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Old March 2 2012, 02:26 AM   #13
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
"Dark and gritty" is one of those phrases that's been ground into meaninglessness by studio press releases. It means about as much to me as "high-concept" and "we're very excited about...".
You left out "We are very pleased".
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Old March 2 2012, 02:30 AM   #14
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

is it just me, or has the original poster just described Babylon 5 perfectly in his 'requests'?

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Get rid of the hokiness!
Babylon 5... serious sci-fi with down to earth characters that have real flaws, emotions and problems... check...

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Come down to earth.
Ok, don't really see how Star Trek would be done just on Earth... unless you want a Starfleet Academy series? Kirk does Saved by the Bell perhaps?

Babylon 5, check... real military that kick ass...

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Real scientific terminology.
Good luck in any sci-fi on this one lmao... it's called Science Fiction for a reason lol

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Needs to be dark and gritty.
Babylon 5 definitely... very dark in places with storylines that will get you wondering how close their storylines could be to reality...

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Aliens need to look like aliens and......
Babylon 5, check... Shadows and Vorlons that kick ass on every level

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Timeline progression through seasons.
Babylon 5... 5 years of story, spread over 5 seasons...

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Character development.
Definitely strong on B5, though Trek didn't do badly with this either in my opinion...

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Ships need to look like science/military vessels inside and out.
Babylon 5, check... definitely, logical scientifical reasoning for the earth based ships and technology...

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Uniforms, I am 15 years ex-Navy don't get me started..oops too late!
Babylon 5, check... uniforms for military, space, marines, officers, ground troops, naval fleet and so on... using logical progression of earth based uniforms

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Officers and ENLISTED please! Special forces away teams! Contractors
Babylon 5 again... 'ground pounders' as they were affectionately known, though there were also special forces for other missions shown through the series.

SPEKTRE76 wrote: View Post
Sound does not travel in space!
Good luck on this one, noone's going to sit through watching a space battle scene without a single noise on the screen... just not going to happen, tv execs know this, hell, even viewers know this one...

M
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Old March 2 2012, 03:00 AM   #15
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Trek is doing really, really well on the big screen by ignoring all this nonsense. They know what they're doing.
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