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Old October 23 2012, 10:25 PM   #346
davejames
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Thought last week's episode was pretty good, with the twist regarding the identity of the birthday balloon killer (even if it did seem far-fetcheded as hell).

And it's cool seeing a bit more spunk and attitude coming from Lucy's character.

But Miller's Sherlock still seems way too derivative to me. This is supposed to be the one and only Sherlock Holmes, but the deductions he makes never feel all that brilliant or original-- and don't seem like anything you wouldn't see on any OTHER detective show on TV.
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Old October 23 2012, 11:56 PM   #347
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

^Despite Holmes's reputation, the appeal of the original stories was never really about cunning mysteries and brilliant deductions, but more about the characters of Holmes and Watson and the colorful adventures they got into. In that respect, I think the show is doing rather well.

And let's face it, the reason this seems so much like all those other detective shows is because all those other detective shows are following the lead of Sherlock Holmes. It doesn't really follow to expect the seminal, defining work of the mystery genre to be radically different from the rest of the genre that grew out of it. Works that inspire whole genres often seem derivative to those looking back on them generations later.
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Old October 24 2012, 06:06 PM   #348
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

^True, but even so, I'd say the BBC Sherlock manages to stand out from the pack and seem pretty distinctive. So it's obviously doable.

I realize the Elementary writers have many more episodes to put out, so the mysteries aren't going to be as original or unique. But I at least think Sherlock himself could stand out a bit more than he does on this show.
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Old October 24 2012, 06:16 PM   #349
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Despite Holmes's reputation, the appeal of the original stories was never really about cunning mysteries and brilliant deductions, but more about the characters of Holmes and Watson and the colorful adventures they got into.
Indeed. To me, one of the many strengths of Doyle's canon is how many cases don't revolve around plain ol' murder; robbery, blackmail, international intrigue and con jobs are just as likely to be brought to 221B. Also, sometimes Holmes and Watson side with the criminal, and on occasion there's no criminal, or even crime, at all.

A glance at the current episode list, however, suggests yet another "all homicide, all the time" series, much like the similarly Holmes-inspired L&O: CI.

I get that it's tough to do a forty-minute teleplay without murders, but my sympathies are not excited by that fact. A ceaseless run of murder cases is, to me, perhaps the worst perversion of the duo's legacy, far more than bringing things to the present, or making Watson a woman.
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Old October 24 2012, 06:31 PM   #350
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Much like Wo-Fat on the H50, I'm just waiting for Moriarty to appear and be the recurring villian of the series.
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Old October 24 2012, 06:33 PM   #351
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

^Yup. Perhaps even the real reason Holmes had to leave England.
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Old October 24 2012, 07:21 PM   #352
davejames
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Gaith wrote: View Post
A glance at the current episode list, however, suggests yet another "all homicide, all the time" series, much like the similarly Holmes-inspired L&O: CI.

I get that it's tough to do a forty-minute teleplay without murders, but my sympathies are not excited by that fact. A ceaseless run of murder cases is, to me, perhaps the worst perversion of the duo's legacy, far more than bringing things to the present, or making Watson a woman.
Even worse is the ridiculous number of serial killers that'll be involved. It's become such a hoary cliche in procedurals by now, and the main reason I gave up on watching them.
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Old October 24 2012, 07:43 PM   #353
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

If you don't like hoary old cliches, why are you watching CBS?

This show is exactly what the CBS audience wants, which is why it's one of the most successful new shows this season. Expecting anything but a CBS show from CBS is delusional.
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Old October 24 2012, 07:45 PM   #354
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

davejames wrote: View Post
^True, but even so, I'd say the BBC Sherlock manages to stand out from the pack and seem pretty distinctive. So it's obviously doable.
But not because of its cases, which are modern remixes of the Doyle stories. It's more to do with the distinctive stylistic elements that Steven Moffat brings to it.


I realize the Elementary writers have many more episodes to put out, so the mysteries aren't going to be as original or unique. But I at least think Sherlock himself could stand out a bit more than he does on this show.
Whereas I think I may prefer Elementary's version to Sherlock's. The latter is too exaggerated, like just about everything Moffat does, and the so-called "sociopath" angle is played up too much. I also got quite tired of what a jerk Dr. House was all the time. If this version of Holmes is a little more amiable, I'm entirely okay with that.


Gaith wrote: View Post
A glance at the current episode list, however, suggests yet another "all homicide, all the time" series, much like the similarly Holmes-inspired L&O: CI.
Well, we did have a kidnapping case last week, though the kidnapper had murdered his earlier victims.


A ceaseless run of murder cases is, to me, perhaps the worst perversion of the duo's legacy, far more than bringing things to the present, or making Watson a woman.
I don't agree with either of those being a "perversion." Fiction is a creative exercise to begin with, so applying further creativity, finding new angles and approaches to a concept, is merely a continuation of the same spirit, not a corruption of it.
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Old October 24 2012, 09:12 PM   #355
davejames
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Temis the Friendly Ghost wrote: View Post
If you don't like hoary old cliches, why are you watching CBS?

This show is exactly what the CBS audience wants, which is why it's one of the most successful new shows this season. Expecting anything but a CBS show from CBS is delusional.
Lol, good point. Although I do think Person of Interest manages to feel a bit more unique than the usual CBS procedural.
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Old October 25 2012, 01:18 AM   #356
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Gaith wrote: View Post
To me, one of the many strengths of Doyle's canon is how many cases don't revolve around plain ol' murder; robbery, blackmail, international intrigue and con jobs are just as likely to be brought to 221B. Also, sometimes Holmes and Watson side with the criminal, and on occasion there's no criminal, or even crime, at all.

A glance at the current episode list, however, suggests yet another "all homicide, all the time" series, much like the similarly Holmes-inspired L&O: CI.
I don't know what Rob Doherty and his team have in mind, but I can see some in-character reasons for why Holmes would focus on working with the police on murder investigations for the time being. He's in a new city, he just got out of rehab, he's trying to find his feet. Hanging out a shingle as a consulting detective and waiting for people to bring cases to him isn't going to help his ennui. (If you remember in the Canon, when business was light like that, Holmes turned to the cocaine.) Focusing on murder can keep him focused.

I would like to see Holmes do some private consultations that have absolutely nothing to do with the police. If that happens, though, I wouldn't expect it for a while down the line.
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Old October 25 2012, 12:04 PM   #357
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

In this version, Holmes is an out of towner with no reputation. At this point, any other cases, murder or no, must come via some character's personal life.

The nearly exclusive fixation on murder has been a weakness of all mystery fiction other than the caper/heist story for decades. Criticizing Elementary alone for this while giving a free ride to every other cop and detective show is quite strange. Nor is it any more a hoary cliche than a male Watson. It is just something that was regarded as essential but turns out not to be after all.

CBS aimed that hoary cliche Joan Watson straight at the enervated faculties of the vile old folks, dontcha know?
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Old October 25 2012, 12:14 PM   #358
Gaith
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

stj wrote: View Post
Criticizing Elementary alone for this while giving a free ride to every other cop and detective show is quite strange.
It certainly would be. Please let us know if/when someone does that, so we can point and laugh at 'em together.
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Old October 28 2012, 02:59 AM   #359
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

I'm really enjoying this show more than I thought I would. Like I've said above the take on Holmes seems more "House" to me, but that's fine because I liked House so I'm digging this as well. (Though I'd argue this guy isn't nearly as charismatic as Laurie was.) I'm growing on Liu as Watson but it just doesn't "feel right." I get that they probably felt they needed a regular female character but I think it could've been done a bit differently than going the "Monk" route with our quirky detective having a doctor follow him around all of the time.
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Old November 6 2012, 02:32 AM   #360
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Re: Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Elementary will be CBS's post-Super Bowl program.

That's pretty big.
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