Am I the only one who loves SGU?

[AJ86]

The Wormhole wrote:

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Icarus was a US military base, and Young its commanding officer. Though the base is destroyed, and everyone has relocated to a starship, it's mostly the same people there and Young was still their commander. And thanks to the stones, they remained in contact with Earth, General O'Neill and the IOA and no one ever rescinded Young's authority. Except for the episode Earth, but even then, they replaced him with another military officer who stone-swapped in (Telford).

Trying to take the rules and regulations that were designed to govern life on Icarus and apply them to Destiny is absurd. They may still apply to the military personnel, but the civilians? Of course not, how could they? They are no longer employees, they are refugees. They can ditch their job, and therefore their obligations to the military any time they like - which they did. To force them to take orders from the military, which Young did, is to set up a military dictatorship. What's worse - he was inept too. There were absolutely grounds for a revolution, it's only a shame he wasn't put in his place.

[DWF]

AJ86 wrote:

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Trying to take the rules and regulations that were designed to govern life on Icarus and apply them to Destiny is absurd. They may still apply to the military personnel, but the civilians? Of course not, how could they? They are no longer employees, they are refugees. They can ditch their job, and therefore their obligations to the military any time they like - which they did. To force them to take orders from the military, which Young did, is to set up a military dictatorship. What's worse - he was inept too. There were absolutely grounds for a revolution, it's only a shame he wasn't put in his place.

He was put in his place, boths sides are needed for survival and by the end of the season they were all working together for their own survival, even Rush was agreeing with Young's decisions.Of course the alternate version of the crew got along just fine without Rush which is something to think about.

[AJ86]

That's what Volker says as a jibe, but it wasn't true was it? They ended up dividing into two distinct factions again. One lead by Young, the other seemingly by Brody.

[The Wormhole]

^^But that was only because Brody became a cranky old man pissed that everyone's children were playing on his yard. Then when Young won the next election, Brody and some followers left and formed their own settlement.

I don't think the situation on Novus was a military vs civilian one as plenty of civilians stayed on Young's side, but rather just Brody getting pissed and swaying his friends to join him.

[AJ86]

Well whether it was military vs. civilian or not isn't really here nor there. The point was that they never got along fine without Rush, they split up again, and formed two distinct and opposing factions. One seemingly based around Rush being evil, the other around him being a saviour. I suppose you could still argue that he was the catalyst for division though...

[Crazy Eddie]

AJ86 wrote:

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Trying to take the rules and regulations that were designed to govern life on Icarus and apply them to Destiny is absurd. They may still apply to the military personnel, but the civilians? Of course not, how could they? They are no longer employees, they are refugees. They can ditch their job, and therefore their obligations to the military any time they like - which they did. To force them to take orders from the military, which Young did, is to set up a military dictatorship. What's worse - he was inept too. There were absolutely grounds for a revolution, it's only a shame he wasn't put in his place.

A mutiny is a mutiny, justified or not. And stranded on an alien ship you barely control dependent on technology you scarcely understand is about the worst possible circumstances to attempt a mutiny unless you are absolutely sure you have no other choice.

It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random). Otherwise the entire "revolution for democracy!" angle came off as more of a clique war between the civilians and the soldiers, with the former faction having its priorities thoroughly ass backwards and the latter faction having no coherent priorities of any kind.

Decent premise, sloppy execution.
Welcome to Stargate.

[bullethead]

newtype_alpha wrote:

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It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random).

That was just really heavy handed authorial bias to generate artificial conflict. If you look at the show objectively, Rush is the single most competent and effective member of the Destiny crew. Hell, the only times things go wrong for him is when somebody does something stupid (Franklin using the chair five seconds after they decided to keep researching it, Amanda Perry not clearing the memory on that console she used), authorial fiat (the shuttle crashing in Awakening for no fucking reason), and Colonel Young is involved (getting caught framing Young due to the hidden Kinos, telling Young that he is a shitty commander to his face, getting stuck with Young on that Ursini ship).

[AJ86]

newtype_alpha wrote:

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A mutiny is a mutiny, justified or not. And stranded on an alien ship you barely control dependent on technology you scarcely understand is about the worst possible circumstances to attempt a mutiny unless you are absolutely sure you have no other choice.

It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random). Otherwise the entire "revolution for democracy!" angle came off as more of a clique war between the civilians and the soldiers, with the former faction having its priorities thoroughly ass backwards and the latter faction having no coherent priorities of any kind.

Young had been lurching the crew from one disaster to another, almost entirely down to the fact that he wouldn't listen to Rush, worse than that, he actually tried to murder the man, the one expert the crew had and despite his ulterior motives - the man they depended on most. They were in an extremely hostile environment, their lives in jeopardy on an almost daily basis, all the while being lead by an inept commander who had appointed himself dictator. A man that was in large part responsible for their constant state of peril. From their perspective, removing him could be the difference between life and death. Of course they were going to do something, especially after talking had failed and especially after Wray found out what he'd done to Rush.

[MacLeod]

Well the Stargate programme comes under the auspices of the IOA a civillian authority. So yes the civilians are in ultimate charge of the programme.

As for the Rush vs Young, in the earlier episodes it seemed as if Rush was making the more sound judgement calls rather than Young. Sure for the most part it turned out ok in the end for Young's decisions.

From memory the catalyst for the civilians deciding to take command was Young abandoning Rush on the Planet. After all one line of thought could be 'will I be the next one who Young abandons on a planet".

[Sindatur]

Early on in the Series, when Young abandoned Rush, I was so over both characters, I wanted them to kill each other.

IMHO, that was one of the main problems with the first season, I disliked all the characters, and their constant petty disputes. Too much drama and conflict and nothing else but unlikeable characters. Thank Goodness they toned it down in the second season and allowed the characters to grow. Drama and conflict, is of course needed for a show, but, you need to balance that with something else, some story plot or something. But, S1 was nothing but conflict and drama for the sake of Drama and Conflict.

[DWF]

bullethead wrote:

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That was just really heavy handed authorial bias to generate artificial conflict. If you look at the show objectively, Rush is the single most competent and effective member of the Destiny crew. Hell, the only times things go wrong for him is when somebody does something stupid (Franklin using the chair five seconds after they decided to keep researching it, Amanda Perry not clearing the memory on that console she used), authorial fiat (the shuttle crashing in Awakening for no fucking reason), and Colonel Young is involved (getting caught framing Young due to the hidden Kinos, telling Young that he is a shitty commander to his face, getting stuck with Young on that Ursini ship).

It was Rush who gave up opn getting the lime for the oxygen regneraters and I didn't see Rush voluntineering to help get the ice to replacce their water supply. And Rush refused to sit in the chair, which is why Franklin did it. Rush also kept the discovery of the bridge to himself and I can't recall anytime when Rush was actively trying to get the others back to earth. Even when he gave up his water in Air he then attacked Greer for water ration when he refused to give it to Rush, then he ordered Greer to shoot Brody to keep him from leaving the planet.

[MacLeod]

I also don't remember most of the other crew volunterring to get the ice or even go find the lime.

As for the control chair wasn't there a specific reason why Franklin did, rather than to sit in it to see if they could gain control?

[bullethead]

DWF wrote:

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It was Rush who gave up opn getting the lime for the oxygen regneraters

He wasn't physically fit enough to trek through the desert and they wouldn't have found the lime without the helpful plot bugs, anyway. Based on the information they had, he made a rational choice.

and I didn't see Rush voluntineering to help get the ice to replacce their water supply.

One, you don't send the best scientist to do everything, and two, he wasn't even considered an option for that job IIRC.

And Rush refused to sit in the chair, which is why Franklin did it.

Pretty sure that Franklin was just tired of being on the ship and sat on the damn thing before they had a chance to do more research the chair and build that buffer thing that Brody and Rush installed on it.

Rush also kept the discovery of the bridge to himself

What do you expect when the guy who tried to murder him and was stupid enough to allow the Lucian Alliance to get as far as they did when he controlled life support and oxygen.

and I can't recall anytime when Rush was actively trying to get the others back to earth.

He didn't, but let's face it, the show made it abundantly clear that the Destiny crew was screwed on that front thanks to the age of the ship.

Even when he gave up his water in Air he then attacked Greer for water ration when he refused to give it to Rush,

They hated each other and were under stress. Totally understandable, although not a great display on the parts of either man.

then he ordered Greer to shoot Brody to keep him from leaving the planet.

That was Franklin (although I totally forgot that for a while and that it was Volker who got shot for a bit) and that was totally justified, since those dumbasses would've left everyone else stranded.

[AJ86]

[FFunctionalData]

I loved the show and wished it was still around.