RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,601
Posts: 5,424,756
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 447
Newest member: David Ellerman

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Stargate

Stargate Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise forum.

 
 
Thread Tools
Old June 3 2012, 03:53 PM   #121
AJ86
Captain
 
AJ86's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
AJ86 wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Young was the commanding officer of Icarus Base and that was no more a democracy than any other military base. Even though Icarus was destroyed and everyone ended up stranded on the ass end of the universe, Young is still the commanding officer, and everyone was still required to obey him as they would on Icarus.
Says who? The US military has no jurisdiction on Destiny, something even Young later began to allude to himself.
Icarus was a US military base, and Young its commanding officer. Though the base is destroyed, and everyone has relocated to a starship, it's mostly the same people there and Young was still their commander. And thanks to the stones, they remained in contact with Earth, General O'Neill and the IOA and no one ever rescinded Young's authority. Except for the episode Earth, but even then, they replaced him with another military officer who stone-swapped in (Telford).
Trying to take the rules and regulations that were designed to govern life on Icarus and apply them to Destiny is absurd. They may still apply to the military personnel, but the civilians? Of course not, how could they? They are no longer employees, they are refugees. They can ditch their job, and therefore their obligations to the military any time they like - which they did. To force them to take orders from the military, which Young did, is to set up a military dictatorship. What's worse - he was inept too. There were absolutely grounds for a revolution, it's only a shame he wasn't put in his place.
AJ86 is offline  
Old June 3 2012, 06:09 PM   #122
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

AJ86 wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
AJ86 wrote: View Post

Says who? The US military has no jurisdiction on Destiny, something even Young later began to allude to himself.
Icarus was a US military base, and Young its commanding officer. Though the base is destroyed, and everyone has relocated to a starship, it's mostly the same people there and Young was still their commander. And thanks to the stones, they remained in contact with Earth, General O'Neill and the IOA and no one ever rescinded Young's authority. Except for the episode Earth, but even then, they replaced him with another military officer who stone-swapped in (Telford).
Trying to take the rules and regulations that were designed to govern life on Icarus and apply them to Destiny is absurd. They may still apply to the military personnel, but the civilians? Of course not, how could they? They are no longer employees, they are refugees. They can ditch their job, and therefore their obligations to the military any time they like - which they did. To force them to take orders from the military, which Young did, is to set up a military dictatorship. What's worse - he was inept too. There were absolutely grounds for a revolution, it's only a shame he wasn't put in his place.
He was put in his place, boths sides are needed for survival and by the end of the season they were all working together for their own survival, even Rush was agreeing with Young's decisions.Of course the alternate version of the crew got along just fine without Rush which is something to think about.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline  
Old June 3 2012, 07:11 PM   #123
AJ86
Captain
 
AJ86's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

That's what Volker says as a jibe, but it wasn't true was it? They ended up dividing into two distinct factions again. One lead by Young, the other seemingly by Brody.
AJ86 is offline  
Old June 3 2012, 08:01 PM   #124
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

^^But that was only because Brody became a cranky old man pissed that everyone's children were playing on his yard. Then when Young won the next election, Brody and some followers left and formed their own settlement.

I don't think the situation on Novus was a military vs civilian one as plenty of civilians stayed on Young's side, but rather just Brody getting pissed and swaying his friends to join him.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline  
Old June 3 2012, 10:48 PM   #125
AJ86
Captain
 
AJ86's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

Well whether it was military vs. civilian or not isn't really here nor there. The point was that they never got along fine without Rush, they split up again, and formed two distinct and opposing factions. One seemingly based around Rush being evil, the other around him being a saviour. I suppose you could still argue that he was the catalyst for division though...
AJ86 is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 09:06 AM   #126
Crazy Eddie
Rear Admiral
 
Crazy Eddie's Avatar
 
Location: I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

AJ86 wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
AJ86 wrote: View Post

Says who? The US military has no jurisdiction on Destiny, something even Young later began to allude to himself.
Icarus was a US military base, and Young its commanding officer. Though the base is destroyed, and everyone has relocated to a starship, it's mostly the same people there and Young was still their commander. And thanks to the stones, they remained in contact with Earth, General O'Neill and the IOA and no one ever rescinded Young's authority. Except for the episode Earth, but even then, they replaced him with another military officer who stone-swapped in (Telford).
Trying to take the rules and regulations that were designed to govern life on Icarus and apply them to Destiny is absurd. They may still apply to the military personnel, but the civilians? Of course not, how could they? They are no longer employees, they are refugees. They can ditch their job, and therefore their obligations to the military any time they like - which they did. To force them to take orders from the military, which Young did, is to set up a military dictatorship. What's worse - he was inept too. There were absolutely grounds for a revolution, it's only a shame he wasn't put in his place.
A mutiny is a mutiny, justified or not. And stranded on an alien ship you barely control dependent on technology you scarcely understand is about the worst possible circumstances to attempt a mutiny unless you are absolutely sure you have no other choice.

It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random). Otherwise the entire "revolution for democracy!" angle came off as more of a clique war between the civilians and the soldiers, with the former faction having its priorities thoroughly ass backwards and the latter faction having no coherent priorities of any kind.

Decent premise, sloppy execution.
Welcome to Stargate.
__________________
The Complete Illustrated Guide to Starfleet - Online Now!
Crazy Eddie is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 02:19 PM   #127
bullethead
Fleet Captain
 
bullethead's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random).
That was just really heavy handed authorial bias to generate artificial conflict. If you look at the show objectively, Rush is the single most competent and effective member of the Destiny crew. Hell, the only times things go wrong for him is when somebody does something stupid (Franklin using the chair five seconds after they decided to keep researching it, Amanda Perry not clearing the memory on that console she used), authorial fiat (the shuttle crashing in Awakening for no fucking reason), and Colonel Young is involved (getting caught framing Young due to the hidden Kinos, telling Young that he is a shitty commander to his face, getting stuck with Young on that Ursini ship).
__________________
A business man and engineer discuss how to launch a communications satellite in the 1960s:
Biz Dev Guy: Your communications satellite has to be the size, shape, and weight of a hydrogen bomb.
bullethead is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 04:37 PM   #128
AJ86
Captain
 
AJ86's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
A mutiny is a mutiny, justified or not. And stranded on an alien ship you barely control dependent on technology you scarcely understand is about the worst possible circumstances to attempt a mutiny unless you are absolutely sure you have no other choice.

It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random). Otherwise the entire "revolution for democracy!" angle came off as more of a clique war between the civilians and the soldiers, with the former faction having its priorities thoroughly ass backwards and the latter faction having no coherent priorities of any kind.
Young had been lurching the crew from one disaster to another, almost entirely down to the fact that he wouldn't listen to Rush, worse than that, he actually tried to murder the man, the one expert the crew had and despite his ulterior motives - the man they depended on most. They were in an extremely hostile environment, their lives in jeopardy on an almost daily basis, all the while being lead by an inept commander who had appointed himself dictator. A man that was in large part responsible for their constant state of peril. From their perspective, removing him could be the difference between life and death. Of course they were going to do something, especially after talking had failed and especially after Wray found out what he'd done to Rush.
AJ86 is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 04:56 PM   #129
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

Well the Stargate programme comes under the auspices of the IOA a civillian authority. So yes the civilians are in ultimate charge of the programme.

As for the Rush vs Young, in the earlier episodes it seemed as if Rush was making the more sound judgement calls rather than Young. Sure for the most part it turned out ok in the end for Young's decisions.

From memory the catalyst for the civilians deciding to take command was Young abandoning Rush on the Planet. After all one line of thought could be 'will I be the next one who Young abandons on a planet".
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 06:13 PM   #130
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

Early on in the Series, when Young abandoned Rush, I was so over both characters, I wanted them to kill each other.

IMHO, that was one of the main problems with the first season, I disliked all the characters, and their constant petty disputes. Too much drama and conflict and nothing else but unlikeable characters. Thank Goodness they toned it down in the second season and allowed the characters to grow. Drama and conflict, is of course needed for a show, but, you need to balance that with something else, some story plot or something. But, S1 was nothing but conflict and drama for the sake of Drama and Conflict.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 10:34 PM   #131
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

bullethead wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random).
That was just really heavy handed authorial bias to generate artificial conflict. If you look at the show objectively, Rush is the single most competent and effective member of the Destiny crew. Hell, the only times things go wrong for him is when somebody does something stupid (Franklin using the chair five seconds after they decided to keep researching it, Amanda Perry not clearing the memory on that console she used), authorial fiat (the shuttle crashing in Awakening for no fucking reason), and Colonel Young is involved (getting caught framing Young due to the hidden Kinos, telling Young that he is a shitty commander to his face, getting stuck with Young on that Ursini ship).
It was Rush who gave up opn getting the lime for the oxygen regneraters and I didn't see Rush voluntineering to help get the ice to replacce their water supply. And Rush refused to sit in the chair, which is why Franklin did it. Rush also kept the discovery of the bridge to himself and I can't recall anytime when Rush was actively trying to get the others back to earth. Even when he gave up his water in Air he then attacked Greer for water ration when he refused to give it to Rush, then he ordered Greer to shoot Brody to keep him from leaving the planet.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 10:40 PM   #132
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

I also don't remember most of the other crew volunterring to get the ice or even go find the lime.

As for the control chair wasn't there a specific reason why Franklin did, rather than to sit in it to see if they could gain control?
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline  
Old June 4 2012, 10:52 PM   #133
bullethead
Fleet Captain
 
bullethead's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

DWF wrote: View Post
bullethead wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
It might have been different if the series had spent more time portraying Rush as something other than self-important dooshbag (or if Young was stranding/executing people at random).
That was just really heavy handed authorial bias to generate artificial conflict. If you look at the show objectively, Rush is the single most competent and effective member of the Destiny crew. Hell, the only times things go wrong for him is when somebody does something stupid (Franklin using the chair five seconds after they decided to keep researching it, Amanda Perry not clearing the memory on that console she used), authorial fiat (the shuttle crashing in Awakening for no fucking reason), and Colonel Young is involved (getting caught framing Young due to the hidden Kinos, telling Young that he is a shitty commander to his face, getting stuck with Young on that Ursini ship).
It was Rush who gave up opn getting the lime for the oxygen regneraters
He wasn't physically fit enough to trek through the desert and they wouldn't have found the lime without the helpful plot bugs, anyway. Based on the information they had, he made a rational choice.

and I didn't see Rush voluntineering to help get the ice to replacce their water supply.
One, you don't send the best scientist to do everything, and two, he wasn't even considered an option for that job IIRC.

And Rush refused to sit in the chair, which is why Franklin did it.
Pretty sure that Franklin was just tired of being on the ship and sat on the damn thing before they had a chance to do more research the chair and build that buffer thing that Brody and Rush installed on it.

Rush also kept the discovery of the bridge to himself
What do you expect when the guy who tried to murder him and was stupid enough to allow the Lucian Alliance to get as far as they did when he controlled life support and oxygen.

and I can't recall anytime when Rush was actively trying to get the others back to earth.
He didn't, but let's face it, the show made it abundantly clear that the Destiny crew was screwed on that front thanks to the age of the ship.

Even when he gave up his water in Air he then attacked Greer for water ration when he refused to give it to Rush,
They hated each other and were under stress. Totally understandable, although not a great display on the parts of either man.

then he ordered Greer to shoot Brody to keep him from leaving the planet.
That was Franklin (although I totally forgot that for a while and that it was Volker who got shot for a bit) and that was totally justified, since those dumbasses would've left everyone else stranded.
__________________
A business man and engineer discuss how to launch a communications satellite in the 1960s:
Biz Dev Guy: Your communications satellite has to be the size, shape, and weight of a hydrogen bomb.
bullethead is offline  
Old June 25 2012, 12:31 AM   #134
AJ86
Captain
 
AJ86's Avatar
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

AJ86 is offline  
Old January 16 2013, 09:20 PM   #135
FFunctionalData
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Am I the only one who loves SGU?

I loved the show and wished it was still around.
FFunctionalData is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.