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Old March 24 2012, 12:38 AM   #466
sonak
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
The nice people in charge were actually planning to kill of the character at the end of the episode as a nice "gift" to the Kes fans.
Well yeah, that's why their original plan was her only to live nine years anyway. So even if Kes stayed in the show for 7 years, Kes fans were going to have to deal with her dying anyway. Besides, she was going home to die anyway.

Lynx wrote: View Post
In fact, there were a lot of hints that Kes was becoming a more important character in season 3 and that this development was supposed to continue.
Where was this?
I saw hints that they were cutting her ties by mid-3rd season. Regardless of the line in "Future's End", the interaction of Kes with other cast members and her lines decreased. By end end of 3rd season, Jen Lien had the fewest lines of the entire cast. Harry Kim even had more dialog and screen time than Kes all season long.
It's not sure that "Kes fans would have to deal with her dying anyway". There were hints of prologing her lifespan and even if not, she would probably have survived until they arrived to Earth. As for the sick, morbid episode made to insult the fans in which "she was going home to die anyway", we don't know if this really happened. In fact we don't know if that pathetic creature with very little resemblance to the real Kes really was the real Kes.

If we look at season 3, Kes was the main character in two episodes, "Warlord" and "Before And After". She was a most prominent character in "The Swarm and "Darkling" and had a lot of screen time in episodes like "Basics#2", "Sacred Ground", "Coda" and "Scorpion#1#.

Compare that to Harry Kim who had one episode where he was the main character, "Favorite Son" and two episodes where he was a prominent character, "The Chute" and "Alter Ego".

We can also compare with Neelix who had one episode where he was the main character, "Fair Trade" and one episode as a prominent character, "Rise".

If we compare the episodes where Kes played an important part, like "Warlord", "Before And After", "Darkling", "The Swarm" and "Scorpion#1" with those with Kim and Neelix as important characters, we can see that Kes is a head of both Neelix and Kim when it comes to importance for the episodes as such and when it comes to save the day for the crew.

solid analysis. I stand from the sidelines and applaud.
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Old March 24 2012, 01:38 AM   #467
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
I doubt they broke up because they intending to ditch the character. matter of fact, had they gone the other way, and made their relationship deeper, they could've milked more drama out of Neelix' loss.
They wrote out the ongoing romance because fan feedback showed that most fans found it rather icky that Neelix was with the immature Kes long before she even reached the Ocampan version of puberty ("Elogium"). A main character with a lifespan essentially equivalent to the projected run of the whole series sounded like a good idea when the series was conceived but, as more details revealed themselves in those early seasons, the writers kept hitting a brick wall.

They had no plans to ditch Kes at that point, but the many changes in the direction with that character shows how they kept tinkering, and yet few of the tinkers were working. You don't train up the alien with only five years left to live to be the nurse on a journey that was projected to take 70 years. Thank goodness they didn't pull out the miracle cure for her limited lifespan, although they teased with it in "Cold Fire".

Kes wasn't the only poorly conceived element of VOY. So were the ever-replaceable shuttles, the two-year journey through neverending Kazon Space, the lone helmsman who is also the only trained medic, the Maquis who turned good by Episode #2, and many more.
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Old March 24 2012, 07:13 AM   #468
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
You don't train up the alien with only five years left to live to be the nurse on a journey that was projected to take 70 years.
Granted, that doesn't make much sense. Still, it beats the hell out of their backup plan which was to have no nurse at all. Once Kes left, no one took her place as a trainee.
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Old March 24 2012, 07:31 AM   #469
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

There should have been limited edition EMH nurses all exactly like the EMH but.. limited, lol. The whole sickbay could be filled with the EMH only some of them would be shorter because the Doctor wanted to make sure they were distinguishable from his esteemed self.
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Old March 24 2012, 12:52 PM   #470
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Sometimes feels like VOY was a ship full of yellow-tops. No wonder they couldn't find a sub nurse. I think Seven could have spent a season in sickbay. Work on her bedside manner.
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Old March 24 2012, 01:44 PM   #471
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Paris as the nurse was completely stupid. Did anyone find this believable? Kes was a very quick learner so it made some sense because it would get someone up to speed rapidly. However they should have been training a couple other people as well.

For some reason I thought Nurse Ogawa died in First Contact but looking it up I see I was wrong. I always liked her, too bad she wasn't on VOY.
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Old March 24 2012, 01:52 PM   #472
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

She was on babylon 5.

only said just enoguh that my veiwing buddy called her a bitch for years after her 15 seconds were over

She was a hundred years in the future calling Sheridan a myth in Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

It was very message board forum now that I think about it.

How she attacked facts with a filter to sell her supposedly more interesting point of view.

Probably trying to sell a book.
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Old March 24 2012, 01:58 PM   #473
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I wish it were her too. But it isn't.

http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Barbara_Tashaki
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Old March 24 2012, 02:26 PM   #474
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Thank you.

You just turned a bunch of my filed away dusty fantasies retroactively into threesomes.
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Old March 24 2012, 11:47 PM   #475
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Paris as the nurse was completely stupid. Did anyone find this believable?
Believable in that many VOY officers should have had minimal medic training - but how ludicrous that Paris had to keep leaving his helm post.

Kes was a very quick learner so it made some sense because it would get someone up to speed rapidly. However they should have been training a couple other people as well.
Yep. Like the need to populate the ship with children in case the journey really will take 70+ years.

For some reason I thought Nurse Ogawa died in First Contact but looking it up I see I was wrong. I always liked her, too bad she wasn't on VOY.
The ST novels have given Ogawa two futures, both without husband Powell. The "Genesis Wave" books say her child ("All Good Things") was a girl, and the ongoing "Titan" series says that her child was male.
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Old March 24 2012, 11:59 PM   #476
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Paris as the nurse was completely stupid. Did anyone find this believable?
Believable in that many VOY officers should have had minimal medic training - but how ludicrous that Paris had to keep leaving his helm post.
Yes more is better when it come to medical training. All it would take is a few mentions by the doctor of training sessions. People with any medical background should have been identified and their training should have been a priority.

Kes was a very quick learner so it made some sense because it would get someone up to speed rapidly. However they should have been training a couple other people as well.
Yep. Like the need to populate the ship with children in case the journey really will take 70+ years.
I wonder how long it would have taken for them to make a decision to begin the breeding. Would they have chosen to be a generational ship or ended up settling in another 20 years somewhere. They were no where near that point by the end of VOY, still hoping for something super out there to save them.
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Old March 25 2012, 08:33 AM   #477
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
People with any medical background should have been identified and their training should have been a priority.
Supposedly Paris was it.

I would think that all Starfleet officers would at least have Emergency Care training, and yet they sent their best helmsman to sick bay regularly.
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Old March 26 2012, 02:45 AM   #478
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Well yeah, that's why their original plan was her only to live nine years anyway. So even if Kes stayed in the show for 7 years, Kes fans were going to have to deal with her dying anyway. Besides, she was going home to die anyway.


Where was this?
I saw hints that they were cutting her ties by mid-3rd season. Regardless of the line in "Future's End", the interaction of Kes with other cast members and her lines decreased. By end end of 3rd season, Jen Lien had the fewest lines of the entire cast. Harry Kim even had more dialog and screen time than Kes all season long.
It's not sure that "Kes fans would have to deal with her dying anyway". There were hints of prologing her lifespan and even if not, she would probably have survived until they arrived to Earth. As for the sick, morbid episode made to insult the fans in which "she was going home to die anyway", we don't know if this really happened. In fact we don't know if that pathetic creature with very little resemblance to the real Kes really was the real Kes.

If we look at season 3, Kes was the main character in two episodes, "Warlord" and "Before And After". She was a most prominent character in "The Swarm and "Darkling" and had a lot of screen time in episodes like "Basics#2", "Sacred Ground", "Coda" and "Scorpion#1#.

Compare that to Harry Kim who had one episode where he was the main character, "Favorite Son" and two episodes where he was a prominent character, "The Chute" and "Alter Ego".

We can also compare with Neelix who had one episode where he was the main character, "Fair Trade" and one episode as a prominent character, "Rise".

If we compare the episodes where Kes played an important part, like "Warlord", "Before And After", "Darkling", "The Swarm" and "Scorpion#1" with those with Kim and Neelix as important characters, we can see that Kes is a head of both Neelix and Kim when it comes to importance for the episodes as such and when it comes to save the day for the crew.

solid analysis. I stand from the sidelines and applaud.
More like paper thin.
The fact that Harry Kim is is in nearly every single bridge scene and has dialog in all those scenes, still gives him 3x the amount his character is in the show over Kes. He still gets 3x as much exposure than Kes without even being featured prominately in an ep. There are eps in season 3 that Kes isn't even in or ones like "Displaced", where she doesn't even have dialog.
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Old March 26 2012, 02:48 AM   #479
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Yes, by that logic, Lieutenant Ayala was a wonderfully developed secondary character that was indispensable to the show
Its amazing the things people will argue on this forum.
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Old March 26 2012, 02:59 AM   #480
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Paris as the nurse was completely stupid. Did anyone find this believable?
Yes, by this point in the show the Doc had unlocked the key to reprogramming nano-probes. Paris didn't need skills when you have a magical cure all.

Kes was a very quick learner so it made some sense because it would get someone up to speed rapidly. However they should have been training a couple other people as well.
If we are to believe "Before & After", Kes' title is nurse but wasn't she actually studying to be a doctor?
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