RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,755
Posts: 5,216,257
Members: 24,216
Currently online: 868
Newest member: kasmuruis

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 12 2012, 11:12 PM   #346
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Ok so Seven merchandise was popular among collectors...what's the point being made here, why is this thread still going..?
The success of Seven merchandise supports the line of thought that switching Jeri Ryan for Jennifer Lien was a sensible move.
The decision to bring Seven of Nine was a sensible move, her success has nothing to do with Kes. So that's kind of a moot argument.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 11:56 PM   #347
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Ok so Seven merchandise was popular among collectors...what's the point being made here, why is this thread still going..?
The success of Seven merchandise supports the line of thought that switching Jeri Ryan for Jennifer Lien was a sensible move.

um, no it doesn't. First off, it's not an either/or. Seven could have been brought on with Kes still on the show, as was the original plan before Kes somehow became "hard to write for."(despite basically being a better version of Troi with different hair and a shorter life-span) Switching Harry or Neelix makes Voyager a much better show.

Secondly, I still find it unlikely that they were getting gobs of money from various Seven of Nine action figures, but even assuming they were, she was still kind of a ratings bust.

But at any rate, this thread isn't "Did Seven help Voyager?" but rather "why did they choose Kes to kick off?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 11:57 PM   #348
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post

Very wrong. Seven of Nine was many variations of action figure. Half-Borgified (as in "The Gift"), Silver-suited, Plum-suited and Blue-suited, all in the 4.5" size, cloth-dressed figures in both 9" (Brown-suited and Silver-suited) and 12" (Silver), plus a Hallmark ornament and even coldcast statues and a life-size mannequin.

Kes only got a short-packed 4.5" figure.

Even Janeway only got one regular 4.5", one "Flashback" exclusive (designed by me for NewForce Comics), one 9" figure and a Hallmark ornament.



Seven:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Kes:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40



So Playmates and Hallmark should subsidize an actor's salary and not sell any toys or ornaments?


I'm "very wrong?" You're point isn't a refutation of mine. I wasn't questioning the amount or variety of 7 of 9 merchandise, I was questioning the SALES numbers. So unless you have figures that show that there was a huge jump in AMOUNT of 7 of 9 action figures and other merchandise I'll retain my skepticism.

I think the percentage of the fanbase that are hard-core collectors isn't a big one(For example, Star Trek XI was a huge box-office hit but the action figure line didn't do well).

So again I inquire: any figures on 7 of 9 merchandise sales? We've already seen that the ratings impact was negligible, I'm guessing that we see the same thing here.
Then you must be the only Trek fan living under a rock not to know that Playmates Trek action figure line was one of the most highly collectable toy lines to date as well as WIZARD: Toy Fair magazine, the second top rated toy collectable magazine among collectors carried an exclusive Seven of Nine action figure that sold out. Seven of Nine's success of being such a highly collectable item was featured in such shows as the Simpsons, Dilbert, Reaper and even Simon Pegg's UK series Spaced. How do you figure the collector market is small when a major majority of Trek fans own some form of Trek merchandise? You already acknowledged she was a pop icon, so how can she be one and not have well selling product? How are all these sources in the media aware of this and you being a Trek fan, aren't?

because I live under a rock and am a lousy Star Trek fan, obviously.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 01:58 AM   #349
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post

But at any rate, this thread isn't "Did Seven help Voyager?" but rather "why did they choose Kes to kick off?"
Which you refuse to believe even an official statement from those in charge of the show. So if you don't believe what those actually working on the show say, then who will you believe because nobody else but them would have the actual factual info?
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 02:52 AM   #350
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post



I'm "very wrong?" You're point isn't a refutation of mine. I wasn't questioning the amount or variety of 7 of 9 merchandise, I was questioning the SALES numbers. So unless you have figures that show that there was a huge jump in AMOUNT of 7 of 9 action figures and other merchandise I'll retain my skepticism.

I think the percentage of the fanbase that are hard-core collectors isn't a big one(For example, Star Trek XI was a huge box-office hit but the action figure line didn't do well).

So again I inquire: any figures on 7 of 9 merchandise sales? We've already seen that the ratings impact was negligible, I'm guessing that we see the same thing here.
Then you must be the only Trek fan living under a rock not to know that Playmates Trek action figure line was one of the most highly collectable toy lines to date as well as WIZARD: Toy Fair magazine, the second top rated toy collectable magazine among collectors carried an exclusive Seven of Nine action figure that sold out. Seven of Nine's success of being such a highly collectable item was featured in such shows as the Simpsons, Dilbert, Reaper and even Simon Pegg's UK series Spaced. How do you figure the collector market is small when a major majority of Trek fans own some form of Trek merchandise? You already acknowledged she was a pop icon, so how can she be one and not have well selling product? How are all these sources in the media aware of this and you being a Trek fan, aren't?

because I live under a rock and am a lousy Star Trek fan, obviously.
There have been many I would expect, women over the last 15, almost 20 years who have been able to say that for a very interesting duration that they have been living under The Rock, the most EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEectrifying lover in sports entertainment history...

Not to be confused with proficienardo's of the first models of electrical vibrators that plugged into the wall socket, wait? Were they real? Or was Woody Allen just having a gas at my expense in Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex but was afraid to Ask?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 06:24 AM   #351
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post

But at any rate, this thread isn't "Did Seven help Voyager?" but rather "why did they choose Kes to kick off?"
Which you refuse to believe even an official statement from those in charge of the show. So if you don't believe what those actually working on the show say, then who will you believe because nobody else but them would have the actual factual info?
Has it ever occurred to you that official statements aren't always the truth?

And that authorities aren't always "good guys"?
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 06:43 AM   #352
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Then you must be the only Trek fan living under a rock not to know that Playmates Trek action figure line was one of the most highly collectable toy lines to date as well as WIZARD: Toy Fair magazine, the second top rated toy collectable magazine among collectors carried an exclusive Seven of Nine action figure that sold out. Seven of Nine's success of being such a highly collectable item was featured in such shows as the Simpsons, Dilbert, Reaper and even Simon Pegg's UK series Spaced. How do you figure the collector market is small when a major majority of Trek fans own some form of Trek merchandise? You already acknowledged she was a pop icon, so how can she be one and not have well selling product? How are all these sources in the media aware of this and you being a Trek fan, aren't?

because I live under a rock and am a lousy Star Trek fan, obviously.
There have been many I would expect, women over the last 15, almost 20 years who have been able to say that for a very interesting duration that they have been living under The Rock, the most EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEectrifying lover in sports entertainment history...

Not to be confused with proficienardo's of the first models of electrical vibrators that plugged into the wall socket, wait? Were they real? Or was Woody Allen just having a gas at my expense in Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex but was afraid to Ask?
Woody was being truthful but the early models were prone to cause cock shock so no one talks about them any more. Electricity does not belong everywhere.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 07:39 AM   #353
DeepSpaceWine
Commander
 
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Has it ever occurred to you that official statements aren't always the truth?

And that authorities aren't always "good guys"?
I wondered myself about comments like that. Like the producers/writers don't have an angle to spin? Like the "Valentine" to ENT fans was genuine and they were utterly blindsided by the fact most of the audience took great offense to it? Their Kes statement contradicts the very real fact that they themselves acknowledged that Harry was their 1st intended target before People's magazine came out.

Seriously, they could have gotten rid of Janeway and would of had a similar statement "She wasn't working out as captain. We couldn't think of stories for her/we were running out of material for stories for her".
DeepSpaceWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 03:15 PM   #354
LOKAI of CHERON
Fleet Captain
 
LOKAI of CHERON's Avatar
 
Location: Post-apocalyptic ruins of my once mighty Homeworld.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

DeepSpaceWine wrote: View Post
Has it ever occurred to you that official statements aren't always the truth?

And that authorities aren't always "good guys"?
I wondered myself about comments like that. Like the producers/writers don't have an angle to spin? Like the "Valentine" to ENT fans was genuine and they were utterly blindsided by the fact most of the audience took great offense to it? Their Kes statement contradicts the very real fact that they themselves acknowledged that Harry was their 1st intended target before People's magazine came out.

Seriously, they could have gotten rid of Janeway and would of had a similar statement "She wasn't working out as captain. We couldn't think of stories for her/we were running out of material for stories for her".
Excellent point.
__________________
YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.
LOKAI of CHERON is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 03:28 PM   #355
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

These people could walk down the street with ease.

Barely celebrities.

They weren't generating heat.

They were all disposable.

Oh?

I hear you.

Wang had 5 minutes.

But it's like Inception.

5 Minutes of fame inside 5 minutes of fame.

Different sorts of minutes.

Compressed fame.

One has to keep getting more powerful units of fame in shorter relative discretions of 5 minutes to continue ones acceleration to pierce the barrier into A list celebritarianism.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; March 13 2012 at 04:10 PM.
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 04:05 PM   #356
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

DeepSpaceWine wrote: View Post
Has it ever occurred to you that official statements aren't always the truth?

And that authorities aren't always "good guys"?
I wondered myself about comments like that. Like the producers/writers don't have an angle to spin? Like the "Valentine" to ENT fans was genuine and they were utterly blindsided by the fact most of the audience took great offense to it? Their Kes statement contradicts the very real fact that they themselves acknowledged that Harry was their 1st intended target before People's magazine came out.

Seriously, they could have gotten rid of Janeway and would of had a similar statement "She wasn't working out as captain. We couldn't think of stories for her/we were running out of material for stories for her".


Yep. This is pretty much what I've been trying to say. Well put.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 04:19 PM   #357
Kooz
Lieutenant
 
Location: Stamford, CT
View Kooz's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
These people could walk down the street with ease.

Barely celebrities.

They weren't generating heat.

They were all disposable.
I think this is probably true. Even now, other than hardcore fans, I'd bet that almost everyone from Voyager could wander down the street without a second look. Seven would be recognized because she did other stuff and she was a Maxim/FHM darling for a while. Janeway *might* get recognized, and *perhaps* the Doctor too, but that's it. The rest of the cast never faded into obscurity because they were never anything but obscure!
__________________
Follow me!
Kooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 02:49 AM   #358
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post

But at any rate, this thread isn't "Did Seven help Voyager?" but rather "why did they choose Kes to kick off?"
Which you refuse to believe even an official statement from those in charge of the show. So if you don't believe what those actually working on the show say, then who will you believe because nobody else but them would have the actual factual info?
Has it ever occurred to you that official statements aren't always the truth?

And that authorities aren't always "good guys"?
What does it matter?
It won't bring her back.
Who wants the reasons why they were fired made public knowledge? Most people and businesses agree to keep such knowledge private.
You folks are sitting here condemning people over speculation. This is why the public shouldn't know much of what goes on behind the scenes sometimes because folks start being judgmental and go on witch hunts without a lick of proof.
Seriously, what does the reason matter?
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; March 14 2012 at 03:04 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 02:53 AM   #359
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

It's because as fans we must always secretly suspect there ARE witches, plotting the ruination of our true love.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 03:07 AM   #360
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

E! True Hollywood Stories or VH1 behind the "X" would have nothing to reveal as the worm in the apple,

I loves me some worms.

(Secret Circle makes charmed look like Shakepseare. I'm losing all respect for Witches... Although I have a movie on que from 1996 called Casper meets Wendy, staring the heir to the Duff Beer fortune. Seriously. Her family is money.)
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kes, kim, lien

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.