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Old March 9 2012, 03:33 PM   #286
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Did you have a point other than nitpicking?
I thought you'd want to know. On previous occasions when someone has assumed that Lynx is female he gets upset.

There's a little male symbol under his nick:
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Old March 9 2012, 03:51 PM   #287
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Where's the icon that suggests one has been hatched from an egg?.
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Old March 9 2012, 04:30 PM   #288
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Maybe it's simpler than breast size. Maybe its breasts, period.

With Captain Janeway, Chief Engineer Torres, and Roving Medic Kes, we had 3 principle females in an ensemble cast of 9. 2 of whom basically ran the ship. Add 7 of 9, a character that would soon become another department head and primary mover/shaker then this show really does look like its "A ship of Valkyries".

Take away the male Operations officer and replace him with say nothing Lt Ayala and the girls really do seem to "take over".

Take away the female medic and by shear numbers it looks like the male storylines are safe. (Of course, they did not factor in the "all 7 all the time" effect of later seasons. )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoho482n90








If you take away a male cast member and add a female one, the ratio is just 5 males to 4 females, basically balanced, so that's not much of a big deal.
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Old March 9 2012, 05:19 PM   #289
You_Will_Fail
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

It is if the writers realize just how weak the majority of their male characters are already without taking one away (except the Doctor)
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Old March 9 2012, 06:22 PM   #290
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Did you have a point other than nitpicking?
I thought you'd want to know. On previous occasions when someone has assumed that Lynx is female he gets upset.

There's a little male symbol under his nick:
Not upset actually. I do know that the name Lynx is a bit confusing, for some reason feline nicknames are supposed to be female. The reason for the name is that yours truly once was a member of a short-lived and not sucessful rockband with that name. Not to mention that I came up with the name and the logo because of some fascination for this predator.

However, years later I was inspired by the Maquis and started to write a fanfic about a bunch of Maquis in a spaceship called Lynx. When the "canges in season 4" had occurred, the half-written story turned into a Kes-comeback story but I kept the Maquis crew and the ship and shortly after that I changed my nickname to Lynx as well.

When someone assume that I'm female, I politely point out the error.

spot_loves_data wrote:
I thought it was mostly porn.

(not picking on you, Lynx, I haven't read your fic)
You should read it.

No porn, mostly the kind of storytelling you find in a Star Trek novel (or at least an attempt to write in that style).

Not to mention that both Kes and Janeway are still alive, still alive, still alive and well (as Johnny Winter use to sing).

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Where's the icon that suggests one has been hatched from an egg?.
My first reaction: My second reaction: My third reaction:

That comment made my day!
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Old March 9 2012, 07:37 PM   #291
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Where's the icon that suggests one has been hatched from an egg?.
My first reaction: My second reaction: My third reaction:

That comment made my day!
My first reaction was... "He watched last Sunday's installment of 'Once Upon a Time'."

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Old March 9 2012, 07:41 PM   #292
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
It is if the writers realize just how weak the majority of their male characters are already without taking one away (except the Doctor)

Exactly my point.

Take away a MINOR character from the ensemble and replace him with a MAJOR player and BOOM! Earth shattering changes in the # of male vs female storylines.
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Old March 9 2012, 09:35 PM   #293
sonak
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
It is if the writers realize just how weak the majority of their male characters are already without taking one away (except the Doctor)

Exactly my point.

Take away a MINOR character from the ensemble and replace him with a MAJOR player and BOOM! Earth shattering changes in the # of male vs female storylines.


You still have tuvok, the doctor, and Tom Paris. The only weak characters I see are Neelix and chakotay. Keeping Harry isn't a net plus for strong male characters.
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Old March 9 2012, 10:20 PM   #294
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Tuvok and Paris were still pretty weak characters though. Paris was a fairly malformed, insipid character and Tuvok was an emotionless Vulcan, he wasn't really *weak* per se, but naturally understated. And it certainly appeared the writers didn't have that much to do with him understandably. Vulcans as main characters only really work when they have to suffer with some kind of weakness or conflict.
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Old March 9 2012, 11:33 PM   #295
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Vulcans as main characters only really work when they have to suffer with some kind of weakness or conflict.
Or the inevitable Pon Farr stories. I thought Tuvok was great in his interactions with other characters, when they occurred.

In his interactions he made..

Harry look like he needed remedial education

Tom look like a stupid school boy

The doctor look hysterical

Janeway look like a good Captain who sought wise advice and knew who to lean on

B'Elanna also looked like someone who could take advice in her interactions with him (maybe this is a female thing?) though she should have more resentment of him because of his spy status

Kes looked full of potential and like some special glowy person

with 7 she was shown to have met an intellectual equal whose logic was something she could respect

Then there was the Neelix stuff.. which showed Neelix to be not only annoying but also someone with tender feelings as well as affections.

Can't even remember anything about Tuvok and Chakotay. Interesting though that his interactions made the men look dumb and the women look good.
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Old March 10 2012, 12:28 AM   #296
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Cuz' she was dull as all get out...and the Pollyanna stuff in her characterisation was extraordinarily annoying. With the exception of her behavior in that episode where she's inhabited by that ancient warlord guy (name escapes me), I found the character existed as mere window-dressing, and was used mostly to tell the other characters how "good" they were, or how good they should be. Dull.
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Old March 10 2012, 12:54 AM   #297
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

OldManDax wrote: View Post
Pollyanna
That is an excellent word for her and I think I will be stealing it and using it in any of my Kes commentary in the future.

With the exception of her behavior in that episode where she's inhabited by that ancient warlord guy (name escapes me),
"Warlord". LOL That ep did give me a pause because Lien was actually interesting in it.
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Old March 10 2012, 12:57 AM   #298
teacake
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Did you have a point other than nitpicking?
I thought you'd want to know. On previous occasions when someone has assumed that Lynx is female he gets upset.

There's a little male symbol under his nick:
Sorry Therin, I see you were just being helpful.

Did Lynx always have the gender symbol? Because I thought it wasn't always there.
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Old March 10 2012, 05:51 AM   #299
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

This is how you logically work it out to within a ballpark after taking in Lynx's constant point of view and the clarity of his fanfiction.

Lynx is a man who is thoroughly in love Jennifer Lien.

Lynx is a woman who is thoroughly in love Jennifer Lien.

Lynx is Jennifer lien.

Lynx is Jennifer lien who is thoroughly in love with Jennifer Lien.

So from that data we can assume that there is a %75 percent chance that Lynx is a woman, A %50 chance that Lynx is a woman who thoroughly loves Jennifer Lien and only a %25 percent chance that lynx is any sort of man at all. In fact, there's twice as much chance that Lynx is Jennifer Lien than a man.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; March 10 2012 at 07:08 AM.
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Old March 10 2012, 11:56 AM   #300
Lynx
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
This is how you logically work it out to within a ballpark after taking in Lynx's constant point of view and the clarity of his fanfiction.

Lynx is a man who is thoroughly in love Jennifer Lien.

Lynx is a woman who is thoroughly in love Jennifer Lien.

Lynx is Jennifer lien.

Lynx is Jennifer lien who is thoroughly in love with Jennifer Lien.

So from that data we can assume that there is a %75 percent chance that Lynx is a woman, A %50 chance that Lynx is a woman who thoroughly loves Jennifer Lien and only a %25 percent chance that lynx is any sort of man at all. In fact, there's twice as much chance that Lynx is Jennifer Lien than a man.
Huh?

To be honest, those shots really missed the target.

I'm not Jennifer Lien and I'm not in love with her. I don't know her, have never met her and she's a married woman.

Not to mention that Jennifer Lien never was in a rock band called Lynx either.

However, I happen to like the character Kes and I do think that it was wrong to dump the character and fire Jennifer Lien the way they did, for very dubious reasons.

I do also have a certain amount of dislike for people in suits who mess up things, often with short-term profit as only motive. Unfortunately I've seen some examples of ruined careers because of stupid and unnecessary decisions.

teacake wrote:
Did Lynx always have the gender symbol? Because I thought it wasn't always there.
No, it hasn't always been there. I added it just to avoid the misunderstandings we are debating.

OldManDax wrote:
Cuz' she was dull as all get out...and the Pollyanna stuff in her characterisation was extraordinarily annoying. With the exception of her behavior in that episode where she's inhabited by that ancient warlord guy (name escapes me), I found the character existed as mere window-dressing, and was used mostly to tell the other characters how "good" they were, or how good they should be. Dull.
I don't find her "dull" at all, not compared with many other Trek characters. I could easily point out about 8-10 characters who are dull and Kes is none of them.

teacake wrote:
That is an excellent word for her and I think I will be stealing it and using it in any of my Kes commentary in the future.
Oh, please don't make me dig up the old "Barbarella" comment for another character.
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