Supernatural 8x23 "Sacrifice" spoiler discussion thread

[Dorian Thompson]

Season finale tomorrow night, good people. Crowley's back. Good stuff, as always.

[auntiehill]

I can't believe we're already at the season finale. It seems like the season just started!

I am definitely looking forward to this one.

[Thor Damar]

Is it wrong that I want Crowley to not only survive but actually win? Even though he is the crowning example of a utter bastard

(although seeing Mark Sheppard portraying Fergus MacLeod would be brilliant of course.)

[RJDiogenes]

I think it seems like the season just started because we want to forget the first half.

But it's been great since it returned and I think tonight will rock.

[Icemizer]

A very strong way to end the season. All our characters are in good places to start next season. We also have our bad guy in Metatron and Abadon is still out there. What kind of havok will the angels cause on Earth? Cant wait.

[Snick27]

Very disappointed how this ended. Whole season felt like they were going to finally close hell and for the end to go like this. For Sam to go through all those trials for nothing, all those people dead cause of Crowley for nothing.

Now its just back to ground zero with no Angels to help at all.

Also what ever happened to all the Leviathans on earth? Talk about a complete storyline drop.
You would think one of them would take charge and start doing something and maybe go after hell too.

Anyway I feel this show should of ended its run with both heaven an hell being closed. That way Sam and Dean could of walked away and started new lives as they have finally finished their job.



Hmmm, question. If closing Heaven meant kicking out all the Angels, then would closing Hell have the same effect?

But if the trials that Cas was doing weren't to close the Gates to Heaven then how did Metatron kick everyone out.


Hmm might have to rewatch this episode again. Just was too disappointed in how they didn't close hell to really care about the Angel stuff.

[Snick27]

Icemizer wrote:

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A very strong way to end the season. All our characters are in good places to start next season. We also have our bad guy in Metatron and Abadon is still out there. What kind of havok will the angels cause on Earth? Cant wait.

Guessing all the Angels would be powerless right?
They had their wings taken away.

Hmm anyone know of a good site that has more supernatural talk. This board don't seem to get too many post on this show.

[Snick27]

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...radiction.html
'Supernatural' trouble with Castiel: The same old conflict with Dean and a character contradiction

Some good points about Castiel.

[Snaploud]

I liked the ending. It upended all our expectations and set-up a lot of good plot-lines. I can see Metatron playing the next big bad and Crowley (with newly restored doubts but not quite having been purified) acting as a semi-good counterweight. Sure, it would have been a decent send-off to have the gates of hell closed, but we have more seasons to go. We could still have the boys closing hell but only after hell finishes playing its story-telling role as a counterweight to heaven.

As for Dean's decision: it's a tough one. I'm not sure if I hate it, understand it, or both. He's obviously concerned about Metatron playing them for fools and the consequences of following someone else's plan, but he was mostly acting for personal reasons. That is somewhat in line with the character (putting family above all else), but it's also hard to understand from a viewer's perspective (given that we want our heroes to be the representation of good and this act might be grey or even bad). It's definitely not an easy direction for the writers to go, and I could see a backlash happening from the fans.

[Snick27]

Snaploud wrote:

---

I liked the ending. It upended all our expectations and set-up a lot of good plot-lines. I can see Metatron playing the next big bad and Crowley (with newly restored doubts but not quite having been purified) acting as a semi-good counterweight. Sure, it would have been a decent send-off to have the gates of hell closed, but we have more seasons to go. We could still have the boys closing hell but only after hell finishes playing its story-telling role as a counterweight to heaven.

As for Dean's decision: it's a tough one. I'm not sure if I hate it, understand it, or both. He's obviously concerned about Metatron playing them for fools and the consequences of following someone else's plan, but he was mostly acting for personal reasons. That is somewhat in line with the character (putting family above all else), but it's also hard to understand from a viewer's perspective (given that we want our heroes to be the representation of good and this act might be grey or even bad). It's definitely not an easy direction for the writers to go, and I could see a backlash happening from the fans.

What I don't get about Deans decision is, ok Sam might die, but hell is closed for good. Thousands and maybe millions of people will no longer be tormented & possessed by demons. All those people ruined by demons would never have to ever deal with that again.

Sacrifice of one to save millions over time is worth it in the end.
Dean really let everyone down here.
Plus worse case if Sam died, then Sam goes to Heaven and finally gets his reward.

Or Sam get rewarded by God and send back to earth to live a happy life.

At this point Dean didn't know all the Angels were kicked out of heaven. So heck Cas could of went and spent time with Sam in heaven.

So see why this just didn't work for me. All this suffering these two went thru and at the last second Dean blows it cause he cant deal to live without his brother.

Just sad.

[mswood]

I haven't commented much this season, because real life has just kicked my ass.

Bu teh part about Hell being closed, the vast, vast majority of people going to Hell aren't due to deals, but because they aren't good people.

As for the people that Demons have killed on earth, its probably thousands, but probably not more then that.

Remember three seasons ago, Dean really had to struggle with Sam going to Hell, versus letting Lucifer walk the earth (and he saw some of the very real consequences of that).

Far greater damage level, and Dean really, really struggled with it.

When the show started a handful of demons walked the earth, it wasn't until teh devil's gate opened that large numbers of demons were freed. Simply put dealing with just that (which isn't permanent, would put demons lower, probably they several general monsters in body counts.

As for the departed souls of people not chosen by Heaven, where would they still go to Hell? ANd if not would Heaven take them just to feed on the extra power, would they go to Purgatory, where they would suffer. Who knows.

So many things to like about this seasons, but also so many things that have hurt really good premises. In many ways I think seasons 6 and 7 were better, even if they went in directions I wasn't that thrilled with.

Glad to see them ruin Abaddon's body, because they need a solid actor/ actress. And Crowley is actually a pretty lame ass ruler of Hell. I think I like him better when he wasn't so, all for seeing some trouble there.

If Castiel is going back to being a regular, he had to have his abilities removed, or massively reduced. If Sam's only impacting demon abilities had to be white washed away. Then Cas the Angel has to be no more.

As I always harp on Sam's demonic abilities. This season really, really would have benefited in actually addressing them. With the growing threat of Hell, the lack of Angel back up, and the idea of the Trials purifying Sam, it would have created a great visual and emotional core on Sam's journey to cleanse himself, in trying to rid the world of demons, he removes their biggest weapon in fighting them.

I did really like the visual of the angels falling. Something that the show rarely manages (visually powerful special effects, things like Dean chained in Hell, a great image).

[Guy Gardener]

Who noticed the episode title?

"Sacrifice".

Is there an echo in here?

[FreezeC77]

I'm not sure Heaven was closed exactly. Metatron did talk about how he wanted to hear Castiel's life story after he died and his soul returned to Heaven. So souls can still get to Heaven. I think the Angels were kicked out in the same way God kicked out the Angels with Lucifer. Metatron probably was working off a similar spell.

So the question is how much power do the 'fallen' Angels have since I assume Cas may be the only fully depowered one since his essence was removed by Metatron.

Seeing the Angels falling from Heaven should have been a cool visual, but all I could think of was the Axe body spray commercial.

[Guy Gardener]

They'd be able to take over any nation on the planet with ease.

But they could just tell everyone in the Vatican to piss off.

What are Angels actually for?

What is their purpose?

If Heaven and Earth can run without them?

They're Cheerleaders and the Glee Club for God right?

Are there actually an abundance of worker class drones out there that don't qualify as Angels(cupids for instance, and reapers.) who actually get the job done?

[Icemizer]

So lets say next season the angels come after Cas and he kills it and takes its essence. Will he be fully powered, there can be only one. I would assume at that point Cas would have wings since his were never burned off.
Poor Naomi......