RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 143,220
Posts: 5,600,810
Members: 25,399
Currently online: 450
Newest member: PJSLIMM

TrekToday headlines

Saturday Night Live Trek Skit
By: T'Bonz on Mar 3

Two IDW Publishing Trek Comics Previews
By: T'Bonz on Mar 3

Shatner: Celebrate Life
By: T'Bonz on Mar 3

March-April 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Mar 2

Shatner Shares Nimoy Memories
By: T'Bonz on Mar 2

Retro Review: When It Rains…
By: Michelle on Feb 27

Nimoy Dead At Eighty-Three
By: T'Bonz on Feb 27

Breaking news: Leonard Nimoy – ‘Mr Spock’ – dies aged 83
By: AntonyF on Feb 27

Hurley Passes
By: T'Bonz on Feb 26

USS Excelsior Model Coming Soon
By: T'Bonz on Feb 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 23 2012, 10:08 PM   #1
Candlelight
Admiral
 
Candlelight's Avatar
 
Location: New Zealand
How far does jurisdiction extend?

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/287823...onspiracy.aspx

Last weeks arrest of MegaUpload staff in New Zealand and the possibility of their extradition to the United States raises significant questions for users of cloud services the world over.
I spent the weekend discussing the ramifications of the case with Shelston IP partner Mark Vincent, a globally recognised expert on cloud computing and the law, who by good fortune also happens to be a New Zealand lawyer in Auckland.
We felt it best to distil concerns around the case down to four key questions:
- Does US territory now extend to cyberspace?
- What crime would be grounds for extradition?
- What constitutes racketeering in an intellectual property case?
- Could this precedent extend to other cloud services?
While the indictment suggests the US authorities have done their share of homework on global law, they can expect to encounter some difficulties with the following aspects of the case (read the article for the details, too long to post here)
This is not a 'bash the US authorities' thread, nor is it a thread about file-sharing, so please keep it that way. Would prefer a discussion about the future of cloud services, and what they mean globally. Do we have to start drawing fences around the Internet? Extradition is a strong word, even when crimes haven't been commited on American soil. This excerpt is quite interesting:

National jurisdiction has traditionally extended to activities that take place within a country, in its waters and airspace, even in its vessels and aircraft when they move beyond these borders. But it has not traditionally encompassed activities on foreign soil. To deal with international IP infringements on the internet the United States is going to be re-defining the boundaries of state jurisdiction.
Is it the content or the location where the crime is commited (servers for MegaUpload were partly on US soil)?

Discuss (and keep it civil ).
__________________
"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
Candlelight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2012, 10:15 PM   #2
Locutus of Bored
Too Many Secrets
 
Locutus of Bored's Avatar
 
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

In answer to your question about why US authorities could go after MegaUpload even though it's outside the US, Ars Technica had an article about that:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...megaupload.ars

This article is also helpful in providing some background:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...megaupload.ars

Thanks to Arrgh for posting these in The Forum that Must Not Be Named.
__________________
'First Contact' is the tale of a man who just wants to cash in on his creation so he can get wasted on an island full of naked women, but his fans keep insisting that he's a saintly visionary who has profoundly altered the world. AKA - 'I Don't Want to be a Statue: The Gene Roddenberry Story.'
Locutus of Bored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2012, 11:31 PM   #3
Candlelight
Admiral
 
Candlelight's Avatar
 
Location: New Zealand
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

Interesting article; one thing I find interesting though is this comment:

Megaupload purposely did business in the US and with US residents, and it targeted its sites (in part) toward the US. You generally can't gain the benefits of doing business in a jurisdiction without complying with its laws, and being subject to its enforcement efforts
What happens when a law in one country conflicts with a law in another? If I made a site that says 'here's a coupon for a alcoholic beverage when you turn 19' and make it available to anyone in the world. Now in New Zealand you're allowed to drink when you're 19, but in the US it's 21.

(Weak argument I know but I hope you can see my point )
__________________
"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
Candlelight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2012, 11:48 PM   #4
Locutus of Bored
Too Many Secrets
 
Locutus of Bored's Avatar
 
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

I was just posting the article because it addressed the questions in your OP, not arguing the merits of the case one way or the other.
__________________
'First Contact' is the tale of a man who just wants to cash in on his creation so he can get wasted on an island full of naked women, but his fans keep insisting that he's a saintly visionary who has profoundly altered the world. AKA - 'I Don't Want to be a Statue: The Gene Roddenberry Story.'
Locutus of Bored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2012, 12:23 AM   #5
Maestro
Vice Admiral
 
Maestro's Avatar
 
Location: Maestro
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

A country's jurisdiction into another country goes only as far as the second country is willing to let it. The US can pass SOPA, but it's only binding on New Zealanders if the Kiwi government lets US officials enforce it on NZ soil.
__________________
"When Christians use Jesus for hate-mongering, they ruin Jesus for the rest of us." -Me.
Maestro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2012, 02:57 AM   #6
Candlelight
Admiral
 
Candlelight's Avatar
 
Location: New Zealand
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I was just posting the article because it addressed the questions in your OP, not arguing the merits of the case one way or the other.
I wasn't asking you too. Wouldn't want the Feds to find out about this thread and shut us- eeeekkk!

Maestro wrote: View Post
The US can pass SOPA, but it's only binding on New Zealanders if the Kiwi government lets US officials enforce it on NZ soil.
I think it's safe to say SOPA is irrelevant now, given the Feds can shut down any site they want.
__________________
"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
Candlelight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2012, 03:04 AM   #7
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

About time, now maybe China can finally get those sites for Taiwanese and Tibetan causes that are destabilizing their government shut down.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2012, 03:40 AM   #8
Nerys Ghemor
Vice Admiral
 
Nerys Ghemor's Avatar
 
Location: Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

Out of curiosity--could maritime law, for what happens in international waters and airspace, provide any kind of precedent for what happens in the "international waters" of cyberspace?
__________________
Are you a Cardassian fan, citizen? Prove your loyalty--check out my fanfic universe, Star Trek: Sigils and Unions. Or keep the faith on my AU Cardassia, Sigils and Unions: Catacombs of Oralius!
Nerys Ghemor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2012, 03:55 AM   #9
Count Zero
Decidedly something
 
Count Zero's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Awesome
Re: How far does jurisdiction extend?

I don't think it's actually really a novelty. The internet never was a lawless space. National authorities have always been able to enforce the law in regards to servers and domains located in their country.
Megaupload had many servers in the USA so US jurisdiction certainly applies to whatever happened on those servers. Due to international cooperation suspects can be arrested in other countries by the authorities there and possibly extradited. That's not necessarily sinister.
__________________
"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
Count Zero is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.