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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 19 2012, 05:49 PM   #16
Holdfast
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Re: Future Imperfect

Future Imperfect is definitely one of my favourite episodes. I thought the pacing was spot on and like RAMA, enjoyed the double twist ending.

TerragonSix wrote: View Post
Also, the part where Riker figures out that his 'wife' was only a holographic program. That part, and watching Riker's facial expression turn from bright to dark in a nanosecond as the realization hit him - was pretty good acting, as well as a great music cue.
Yeah, that was cool. I didn't catch the issue at first (hey I hadn't seen the Bynar episode in years), so it was a nice reveal when they explained it.
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Old January 19 2012, 06:41 PM   #17
Timo
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Re: Future Imperfect

... I wonder how many microseconds Riker spent thinking "I married a hologram? What was I thinking? Save for the obvious, of course..." until he realized that "If my wife was a hologram, then how come I have a son?" and abandoned the first line of thought.

Although, given 24th century medical technology, Riker couldn't really rule out having a son with a hologram, either.

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Old January 19 2012, 06:42 PM   #18
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Re: Future Imperfect

^Entirely irrelevant. The whole point about 11001001 at the end was that the Minuet program was gone, deleted, lost forever. Which is probably partly why Riker's memory of her remained so special, and why he was able to realize (nearly) instantly that the whole sham was ... well, a sham.
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Old January 19 2012, 08:59 PM   #19
Timo
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Re: Future Imperfect

If Riker were driven enough to marry the thing, he'd probably also have the drive and thus eventually the means to bring it back from oblivion.

Yes, realizing that you're supposed to have been married to a corpse can be unsettling. But in Star Trek, that's not really guarantee of anything much. Riker is having a reaction the audience intuitively understands, but Riker himself should not.

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Old January 19 2012, 09:06 PM   #20
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Re: Future Imperfect

Timo wrote: View Post
If Riker were driven enough to marry the thing, he'd probably also have the drive and thus eventually the means to bring it back from oblivion.

Yes, realizing that you're supposed to have been married to a corpse can be unsettling. But in Star Trek, that's not really guarantee of anything much. Riker is having a reaction the audience intuitively understands, but Riker himself should not.

Timo Saloniemi

come on, you're being silly. Riker's supposed to accept that he married and had a son with a hologram? This is mid-series TNG, not late-series VOY.

It works for the audience and the character. He should very well know something's up. At that time, holograms couldn't even LEAVE THE HOLODECK, much less reproduce and live as a spouse.
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Old January 19 2012, 09:06 PM   #21
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Re: Future Imperfect

That's just it... he wasn't driven enough to resurreect her, let alone marry her. If he had been, he WOULD have brought her back. But he didn't.
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Old January 19 2012, 09:24 PM   #22
Timo
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Re: Future Imperfect

...Except that, in his supposed "years lost to amnesia", he could have made a different choice. Why does he doubt the facts as presented to him, rather than his own actions during these years he's supposed to have lost?

Riker could have a very clear self-image, though. Perhaps he hates and fears holo-addiction (as "Hollow Pursuits" might indicate), and is therefore convinced that anything perverse with Minuet in it must be a sinister plot rather than something he'd willingly dabble in?

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Old January 19 2012, 10:44 PM   #23
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Future Imperfect

What was Riker supposed to think? At that time, holo-emitters were nonexistent. Minuet could not possibly exist as a flesh-and-blood human, so logically, any scenario that presented her as one, MUST be fake.
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Old January 20 2012, 02:10 AM   #24
MarsWeeps
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Re: Future Imperfect

TerragonSix wrote: View Post
There's only so much you can stuff into a 50 min episode
I thought that each episode only adds up to 42 minutes if you cut out the commercials. The TOS days were 52 minutes I think.

CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
I remember being a bit disappointed that it was not the Romulans behind it all in the end.
Who knows, maybe the Romulans were behind the whole thing? A perfect way to plant a spy disguised as an alien kid.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
What was Riker supposed to think? At that time, holo-emitters were nonexistent. Minuet could not possibly exist as a flesh-and-blood human,
Not necessarily...I could see another episode with the Bynars where they introduce the real flesh and blood Minuet (upon which the holodeck program was based) to Riker, who falls in love with her, etc.
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Old January 20 2012, 10:50 AM   #25
Timo
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Re: Future Imperfect

Indeed, we've seen that many of the most lifelike holocharacters later on have their flesh-and-blood models (even if Vic Fontaine's happens to live - and die - in a parallel universe!).

Riker couldn't possibly consider what he sees "proof" of anything. But that's not the point: he's doing what conspiracy theorists everywhere engage in, putting together a lot of small pieces that individually amount to nothing but when put together are supposed to mean something. Usually, a thousand nothings put together still only yield nothing. But this time, Riker got it right.

The same with the bridge scene. "LaForge" is being slow, but Riker doesn't judge him on him being slow - he has already judged, and he now challenges the simulation on grounds of slowness, and wins the challenge. Data is using contractions, which is no proof of anything because that's what Data has been doing from day one - but Riker challenges the simulation over the fact, and again wins. Picard is a nearly perfect simulation, but Riker challenges him, too, and while the simulation remains impeccable, it's the puppeteer behind it that begins to crumble.

Yes, everything Riker does is understandable and human. It's just not perfectly logical for a 24th century Starfleet officer. But it's not the first time the concepts of the 24th century stand in the way of a good story...

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 20 2012, 05:33 PM   #26
Flake
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Re: Future Imperfect

No you CAN'T, don't even TRY!

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Old January 20 2012, 09:26 PM   #27
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Future Imperfect

MarsWeeps wrote: View Post
I could see another episode with the Bynars where they introduce the real flesh and blood Minuet (upon which the holodeck program was based) to Riker, who falls in love with her, etc.
Perhaps a TNG episode could have been made to that effect, but in this context, Riker had no reason to think it up. If he had thought of it, Barash's holodeck would have made it happen, because it read his thoughts. (Riker's *and* Barash's.)
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Old January 21 2012, 07:34 AM   #28
Gil T.Azell
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Re: Future Imperfect

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Barash looked like one of those Gray aliens we always hear about. I wonder if they intended to follow up on that.
I was kind hoping that as well.

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
I also enjoyed this episode. Being mislead a couple of times made it interesting.
It did .
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Old January 21 2012, 01:06 PM   #29
MarsWeeps
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Re: Future Imperfect

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
MarsWeeps wrote: View Post
I could see another episode with the Bynars where they introduce the real flesh and blood Minuet (upon which the holodeck program was based) to Riker, who falls in love with her, etc.
Perhaps a TNG episode could have been made to that effect, but in this context, Riker had no reason to think it up. If he had thought of it, Barash's holodeck would have made it happen, because it read his thoughts. (Riker's *and* Barash's.)
Well, there was a 14 (?) year gap in Riker's memory so he should have realized that there could have been a lot of changes and explanations for things, such as Data's use of contractions. In 14 years, it's not difficult to imagine Data's programming changing to allow the use of contractions.

Also, Worf's scar, why would Riker imagine that but not imagine an explanation for it?
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Old January 21 2012, 01:27 PM   #30
Timo
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Re: Future Imperfect

In 14 years, it's not difficult to imagine Data's programming changing to allow the use of contractions.
But Data has never had a problem with using contractions.

Instead, Data, his own harshest critic, quite counterfactually claims that he has trouble using informal speech patterns in general. But if asked to, he can speak any word or phrase he likes, using early 20th century Gangsta or late 19th century Wharf if required. And Riker is witness to this ability - he doesn't feel Data is doing an impossibility.

lso, Worf's scar, why would Riker imagine that but not imagine an explanation for it?
Just as with Data's use of a single contraction, it's a case of Riker challenging the simulation. He has already stopped believing - so whatever Barash offers in the way of "explanation" is immediately shot down, and the poor kid's imagination is getting overwhelmed until he just plain has to give up.

For all we know, Riker is in fact making the simulation serve his current state of mind, and Barash is unwittingly helping him there. Riker wants to find mistakes and imperfections left and right, so of course he finds them left and right!

Timo Saloniemi
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