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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old February 19 2012, 03:10 PM   #61
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

I'm looking forward to it!
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Old February 19 2012, 03:34 PM   #62
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

There's nothing intrinsically "cornball" about TOS except as a result of differences in style and execution between the '60s and today. By the standards of its time, TOS was a serious adult drama aspiring to naturalism, at least in its first two seasons. So as long as one is true to the intent rather than dwelling on the superficial details, there's no reason one can't reconcile the universe of TOS, a sophisticated 1960s drama series, with the approach of the sophisticated adult dramas of the 2010s.
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Old February 19 2012, 03:58 PM   #63
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

^ The above is sadly not true at all for the German dubbing of TOS. The German TV channel which bought and began airing the show in the early 70s either gravely misunderstood its intent, or tried to reposition the show during the translation stage for whatever reason. The dubbed dialog often deviated significantly from the original, especially in tone. A serious exchange would become uncouth, silly old chestnut jokes were added, et cetera. Plots lost all sense and meaning due to incompetent translators who picked whatever translation the dictionary listed first without making sure things still made sense. More high-brow scenes were sometimes cut entirely without even making an attempt at translation.

The ultimate result was that in Germany, TOS skewed quite strongly toward being a children's show, or at least toward being very silly.
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Old February 19 2012, 04:13 PM   #64
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

^Reminds me of how a lot of dubbed anime is treated in the US.
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Old February 20 2012, 01:43 PM   #65
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

That's too bad Sho. I am sure you are enjoying the series on DVD or Blu-ray now as it was intended?
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Old February 20 2012, 05:32 PM   #66
Sho
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

Patrick O'Brien wrote: View Post
That's too bad Sho. I am sure you are enjoying the series on DVD or Blu-ray now as it was intended?
Yep, sure, as soon as managed to gain a sufficient command of English I switched to watching Star Trek with the original audio. The incentive was not just much better dialog, but in case of the actively airing shows also faster access: Dubbing takes time, so new episodes tended to air with a lag of about a year vs. the US broadcast.

In the mid-90s (and possibly earlier, but that's when I joined the fun), we German fans had mail-arounds of VHS tapes to address that. A helpful American would record the shows on VHS in the US and mail them across the big pond to his local contact, who would then convert the tape from NTSC to PAL and mail it on to the first fan on the distribution list, who would then watch/copy it before sending it on to the next fan, and so on. This way we could watch new episodes with original audio and only a lag of a few weeks, the exact amount of time depending on the list slot you drew.

Later of course I bought it all on DVD/Blu-Ray. Sadly the German audio tracks on the DVDs/Blu-rays remain fairly butchered to this day, though. Originally missing scenes did get re-added and dubbed, and some of the worst translation mistakes did get addressed by re-dubbing in three stages: First when another channel picked up the distribution rights in the 80s, then for the VHS release, then again for the DVD release. But many mistakes still remain, and the complicated multi-stage history of the latest German tracks means that one and the same character is sometimes voiced by several different voice actors in the very same episode. Fortunately the DVDs and Blu-Rays all include the English audio tracks as well.
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Old February 20 2012, 07:42 PM   #67
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

JonLuck Pickerd wrote: View Post
Killandra wrote: View Post
I haven't read any of this series yet so I was hoping those of you who have read it can share your opinions on whether or not I should read this? I know it's set in the TOS era and takes place on Starbase 47, but otherwise am pretty much in the dark. Is it kinda like TOS meets DS9 or is it its own demon?

I don't mind if you guys have to give away some spoilers. It's to be expected when asking for someone's opinion. (Just don't tell me the whole story, lol). Besides, I know the first novel in the series came out a few years ago and think it's pretty unrealistic to give spoiler warnings for anything 5+ years old.
Personally I think it's crap. Its wanna be Star Wars. I think the only reason its so well regarded is because the authors have a pretty loud Internet presence on the boards and Facebook. I am really looking forward to the series ending and the schedule freeing up to the Star Trek I know and love. You know Jean Luc Picard, James Kirk Ben Sisko etc.. not Diego Reyes Tim Pennington, and the rest of the nameless losers that make up Vanguard.
Wow, I don't know if I've ever seen so many wrong opinions in one single post.
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Old February 20 2012, 08:00 PM   #68
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

Sho wrote: View Post
^ The above is sadly not true at all for the German dubbing of TOS. The German TV channel which bought and began airing the show in the early 70s either gravely misunderstood its intent, or tried to reposition the show during the translation stage for whatever reason. The dubbed dialog often deviated significantly from the original, especially in tone. A serious exchange would become uncouth, silly old chestnut jokes were added, et cetera. Plots lost all sense and meaning due to incompetent translators who picked whatever translation the dictionary listed first without making sure things still made sense. More high-brow scenes were sometimes cut entirely without even making an attempt at translation.

The ultimate result was that in Germany, TOS skewed quite strongly toward being a children's show, or at least toward being very silly.
Who cares what everybody else thinks about it? The real point is, weither YOU like it or not.

At least, that's my feelings on the subject.

Buck Rogers (1979) and the original Battlestar Galactica are both often dismissed as "cheesy" and "childish", but I still like both of them.
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Old February 20 2012, 11:12 PM   #69
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

nightwind1 wrote: View Post
JonLuck Pickerd wrote: View Post
Killandra wrote: View Post
I haven't read any of this series yet so I was hoping those of you who have read it can share your opinions on whether or not I should read this? I know it's set in the TOS era and takes place on Starbase 47, but otherwise am pretty much in the dark. Is it kinda like TOS meets DS9 or is it its own demon?

I don't mind if you guys have to give away some spoilers. It's to be expected when asking for someone's opinion. (Just don't tell me the whole story, lol). Besides, I know the first novel in the series came out a few years ago and think it's pretty unrealistic to give spoiler warnings for anything 5+ years old.
Personally I think it's crap. Its wanna be Star Wars. I think the only reason its so well regarded is because the authors have a pretty loud Internet presence on the boards and Facebook. I am really looking forward to the series ending and the schedule freeing up to the Star Trek I know and love. You know Jean Luc Picard, James Kirk Ben Sisko etc.. not Diego Reyes Tim Pennington, and the rest of the nameless losers that make up Vanguard.
Wow, I don't know if I've ever seen so many wrong opinions in one single post.
There are wrong opinions now?

Although you may feel his opinion is counter to yours, it's not wrong as it's his opinion.
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Old February 21 2012, 01:11 PM   #70
Patrick O'Brien
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

Sho wrote: View Post
Patrick O'Brien wrote: View Post
That's too bad Sho. I am sure you are enjoying the series on DVD or Blu-ray now as it was intended?
Yep, sure, as soon as managed to gain a sufficient command of English I switched to watching Star Trek with the original audio. The incentive was not just much better dialog, but in case of the actively airing shows also faster access: Dubbing takes time, so new episodes tended to air with a lag of about a year vs. the US broadcast.

In the mid-90s (and possibly earlier, but that's when I joined the fun), we German fans had mail-arounds of VHS tapes to address that. A helpful American would record the shows on VHS in the US and mail them across the big pond to his local contact, who would then convert the tape from NTSC to PAL and mail it on to the first fan on the distribution list, who would then watch/copy it before sending it on to the next fan, and so on. This way we could watch new episodes with original audio and only a lag of a few weeks, the exact amount of time depending on the list slot you drew.

Later of course I bought it all on DVD/Blu-Ray. Sadly the German audio tracks on the DVDs/Blu-rays remain fairly butchered to this day, though. Originally missing scenes did get re-added and dubbed, and some of the worst translation mistakes did get addressed by re-dubbing in three stages: First when another channel picked up the distribution rights in the 80s, then for the VHS release, then again for the DVD release. But many mistakes still remain, and the complicated multi-stage history of the latest German tracks means that one and the same character is sometimes voiced by several different voice actors in the very same episode. Fortunately the DVDs and Blu-Rays all include the English audio tracks as well.
The mail-around, was an awesome/enterprising idea and a great story. Interesting to see how much effort people will go through to watch Star Trek. I would think a person would want to be early on the mailing list, as making a copy of a copy does affected the quality of the video?
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Old February 21 2012, 04:31 PM   #71
Sho
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

^ Actually, the rules said to keep the copy you made and send on the original, to prevent mounting generational loss. But even that original tape would gradually deteriorate, so yeah, being early had both timing and quality advantages.

It was a pretty fun endeavour overall, and every new tape that arrived was a genuine thrill at having gotten a bag-full-o-Trek early (vs. the dubbed broadcast) .
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Old February 22 2012, 05:00 AM   #72
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

If any of you are thinking about giving the series a try, and you live in the United States, find out how you can win a complete set of all eight Star Trek Vanguard books, signed by the authors.
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Old February 22 2012, 11:37 AM   #73
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Re: Star Trek Vanguard- to read or not to read?

^ Awesome! Thanks for the info David. I'm sure you will get a few entries from this group
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