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Old April 10 2013, 06:47 AM   #2296
Harvey
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

The A.V. Club is as useful an example as any in terms of positive criticism that takes the show more seriously than that. I believe both Slate and Salon have similar coverage each week. But, honestly, it is hard to believe you have read many reviews of the show if that is your impression of its positive feedback among critics. You seem to see what you want to see.

A second point, worth emphasizing, is that Game of Thrones is curtrently the most pirated television series on the air. 4.3 million people downloaded the season two finale, and piracy of the third season is anticipated to be even greater than it was last year.
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Old April 10 2013, 07:05 AM   #2297
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

I'm apparently the only one here who can identify a
minority. You don't learn these difficult skills by selective attention. It's quite the other way around.

I hadn't heard of AV Club. I googled, linked and clicked on the first GoT story.

A fair maiden in New Orleans is looking for a hard dose of Robb Stark lovin’. Last week, an intense Game Of Thrones fan posted a Casual Encounter to Craigslist looking for someone to help her fulfill her elaborate Iron Throne-based fantasy. As she explains, she recently purchased one of those $30,000 Iron Throne replicas and is looking for someone to, well, conquer her on it. She writes:
"In my fantasy, I am Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, and Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms. After crossing the Narrow Sea and defeating the forces of Westeros, it is within my power and right to slay all of those who betrayed my family and denied me my rightful place for so many years. The most vile enemies of house Targaryen, House Stark and House Baratheon must pay the highest price. All of those who fought against the Mother of Dragons are slain—all except one. When I come to Robb Stark, out eyes lock and something moves inside of me. I realize I need to have him, want him, and I can tell he is thinking the same. I order my guards to throw him in the dungeon and later that night, I have him brought to me, in the throne room. There, on the Iron Throne I've so recently won, I make wild and passionate love with him, repeatedly.”
Fair enough. It’s not like Game Of Thrones isn’t smutty to begin with, so at least she’s not pulling this out from beyond the wall. Plus, this potential rendez-vous could be the perfect chance for some lucky knight to use any and all “winter is coming” puns. Plus, the new Chvrches cover of the Game Of Thrones theme would be perfect mood music.
I immediately saw your point about a serious analysis of the series.

It's true this doesn't prove a damn thing, but the irony was irresistible.

PS A quick look at Salon found two real articles (skipping over fan discussion.) One was an indignant article blasting negative reviews of the series from Slate. Guess I'll skip looking for the deep but favorable analysis of the show there. The other was about real life evil medievals who inspired G.R.R. Martin. A goodly number are not even nedieval but Renaissance figures. I don't know if that writer didn't care, or didn't know.

Again, this doesn't prove anything except that it was rather hasty to drivel about missing all those in depth studies littering the internet. There are actually some occasionall pieces that display a serious interest in the show. Most of them I've seen focus on the treatment of women. The thing is, the ones I've seen are rarely very favorable.
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Old April 10 2013, 07:39 AM   #2298
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

I've suggested the website to you at least once before, in a discussion about Dexter, but that was probably some time ago. (It certainly feels like it has been a long time since that series was at all worth discussing.)

In any event, their snarky news coverage and weekly television coverage are hardly the same. Not sure what search terms you used, but "AV Club Game of Thrones" sent me directly to their reviews, not their news coverage.

In any case, I'm not sure what point you are aiming for here. That the domestic audience for Game of Thrones is a minority of U.S. television viewers? Well, of course. I imagine if you surveyed television viewers, most would have no opinion at all about the series. But, among those that do have one, I think it's safe to say yours is the minority opinion.
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Old April 10 2013, 07:52 AM   #2299
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

Sorry the AV Club reference escaped me before. My superficial impression is the AV Club is to io9ish for my tastes, though, so maybe I felt that way then, and promptly forgot it?

But yes, as a matter of fact, my main point is that the series' fans are a minority. This might seem blindingly obvious but if you inspect the responses above, it either isn't, or is too embarrassing.

But is it really safe to assume that my negative opinion is a minority opinion. Is it really likely that there is anyone in the HBO subscription base that hasn't had the opportunity to form an opinion of Game of Thrones? Most of them have it coming into their homes along with True Blood and all the rest of the HBO programming. I think that it is not a bit safe to assume the majority of subscribers who don't watch the show neglect to do so because they foolishly failed to form an opinion at all. I think we can more safely say that, yes, as a matter of fact, they formed a negative one.

The safest thing of all to say is that equating popularity and artistic success is a risky business. Trying to deprive the terms minority and maority of any numerical meaning only compounds the error.
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Old April 10 2013, 11:14 AM   #2300
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

I don't watch it, but Game of Thrones is obviously a monster hit by any modern standard.
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Old April 10 2013, 11:31 AM   #2301
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

stj wrote: View Post
But yes, as a matter of fact, my main point is that the series' fans are a minority.
Is there any tv show, then, whose fans aren't a minority?
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Old April 10 2013, 11:49 AM   #2302
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

AvBaur wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
But yes, as a matter of fact, my main point is that the series' fans are a minority.
Is there any tv show, then, whose fans aren't a minority?
Not these days. As pointed out above, the modern entertainment landscape is so fractured that even the most successful shows are only watched by a small percentage of the viewing audience. According to Nielsen, the highest-rated show on all of American television in the week of March 25th, for instance, got 11.4 million viewers, which is about 10% of the nation's households. That's about as good as it gets these days. Every show's fans are a numerical minority of the country as a whole, so it's completely trivial and spurious to point that out.

Indeed, last week's Game of Thrones premiere scored higher in the ratings than any scripted show on FOX in all of 2013 so far.
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Old April 10 2013, 01:12 PM   #2303
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

AvBaur wrote: View Post
Is there any tv show, then, whose fans aren't a minority?
No. There are no mythical "modern standards" that can turn ten percent of an audience into a majority. It is "completely trivial and spurious" to claim that the majority of people esteem any television show as good or great. In most contexts, such as politics, ten percent is often regarded as borderline insignificant!
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Old April 10 2013, 01:42 PM   #2304
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

stj wrote: View Post
AvBaur wrote: View Post
Is there any tv show, then, whose fans aren't a minority?
No. There are no mythical "modern standards" that can turn ten percent of an audience into a majority.
If that's the case, then what does the fact that a show is "only" liked by a minority have to do with it being a failure or a success?

People here have named plenty of reasons why the show is a success (great ratings & dvd sales, several awards, good reviews, a phenomenal IMDb rating), so the only standard by which you can call it a failure is your own personal taste. Why do you spend countless posts trying to convince everyone that it's a "failure", when all you're really saying is that you happen to not like it?
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Old April 10 2013, 01:47 PM   #2305
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

AvBaur wrote: View Post
Why do you spend countless posts trying to convince everyone that it's a "failure", when all you're really saying is that you happen to not like it?
This. A hundred times.
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Old April 10 2013, 03:03 PM   #2306
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

AvBaur wrote: View Post
People here have named plenty of reasons why the show is a success (great ratings & dvd sales, several awards, good reviews, a phenomenal IMDb rating), so the only standard by which you can call it a failure is your own personal taste. Why do you spend countless posts trying to convince everyone that it's a "failure", when all you're really saying is that you happen to not like it?
Exactly. Of course some people are under the sad misapprehension that their opinion is objective truth. And going so far as to say that every single TV show is a failure that's disliked by most of the public because all shows, even the hits, are only watched by a small percent of the population is just rank stupidity.
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Old April 10 2013, 03:58 PM   #2307
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
AvBaur wrote: View Post
People here have named plenty of reasons why the show is a success (great ratings & dvd sales, several awards, good reviews, a phenomenal IMDb rating), so the only standard by which you can call it a failure is your own personal taste. Why do you spend countless posts trying to convince everyone that it's a "failure", when all you're really saying is that you happen to not like it?
Exactly. Of course some people are under the sad misapprehension that their opinion is objective truth. And going so far as to say that every single TV show is a failure that's disliked by most of the public because all shows, even the hits, are only watched by a small percent of the population is just rank stupidity.
Well, as long as Rank is involved (Admiral, Colonel...?)

Games of Thrones doesn't appeal to me, (Not sure if it's got the same volume of sex that True Blood does, but, I watched the first couple True Blood episodes and there was 2 or 3 sex scenes in those episodes, which is way overboard for my taste. I've got no problem with a little sex, and prefer it to be pertinent to the plot, but, 2 or 3 scenes each episode is too much, an can' possibly be relevant/necessary for the plot). plus the graphic violence and the Medieval setting aren't necessarily my thing either (Though I do love The Walking Dead)

But, obviously the show is popular, since it's getting competing ratings with what's on Free TV (which is a least 3 times the available audienc HBO has) that continues getting renewed each season.
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Old April 10 2013, 04:42 PM   #2308
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

BillJ wrote: View Post
AvBaur wrote: View Post
Why do you spend countless posts trying to convince everyone that it's a "failure", when all you're really saying is that you happen to not like it?
This. A hundred times.


But this nonsense is great for keeping my thread bumped while waiting for more actual news on the thread topic.
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Old April 10 2013, 05:21 PM   #2309
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

You know, I'm starting to see STJ's point of view. How can Game of Thrones be a hit when the vast majority of intelligent life in the universe hasn't watched the show?? When you think about it, that 10 million people is just an infinitesimally small percentage of the possible audience. It's just.....


Sorry couldn't keep a straight face any longer.
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Old April 10 2013, 05:22 PM   #2310
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2013

AvBaur wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
AvBaur wrote: View Post
Is there any tv show, then, whose fans aren't a minority?
No. There are no mythical "modern standards" that can turn ten percent of an audience into a majority.
If that's the case, then what does the fact that a show is "only" liked by a minority have to do with it being a failure or a success?
Exactly. stj, you're engaged in a classic abuse of statistics: taking raw numbers out of context and thereby grossly misrepresenting what they actually mean. A majority is just a number -- a value greater than fifty percent of a total group -- but numbers are only meaningful in relation to their context. In some contexts, like an election between two candidates, it matters whether something is a majority or not. But in other contexts, it's a completely useless standard. If there's a Thanksgiving dinner attended by a family of twelve, and no one person has a majority of the pumpkin pie, that doesn't mean everybody hated the pumpkin pie. It just means that the pie was divided up among such a large number of people that it was impossible for any one of them to get anywhere near 50%. So the majority would be an irrelevant figure in that context, and citing it would demonstrate nothing except the citer's ignorance of statistics.

The figure that is relevant here is a plurality: the largest share that any of the competitors gets out of the total. If there are five shows competing for a time slot, and show A gets 15% of the viewers, B gets 9%, C gets 24%, D gets 36%, and E gets 16%, then D is obviously the most popular show. What matters isn't whether any of them gets more than half, but which one gets the largest percentage, which one does best compared to the others. And of course these days there are dozens or hundreds of shows competing for the same slot in any given market. So if one show gets even as much as 10 percent of the whole when it's one of hundreds of competitors, that's actually an amazingly good showing. Think about the math. If, say, 200 shows were all watched by equal numbers of people, each one would have to get only half a percent of the total. So for one show to get ten percent, to do twenty times better than the average, is very impressive.
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