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Old December 31 2011, 03:59 PM   #46
Christopher
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

And really, aren't there more important causes to focus our attention on? There are people suffering from poverty and injustice and disease all over the world. Climate change is on the verge of irreversibility and world leaders are dragging their heels. If you want to start a petition, start one about something that actually matters to the real world. The life or death of a million fictional characters is less important than the well-being or freedom of a single real person. Kathryn Janeway isn't dead because she was never alive to begin with. She's an imaginary entity. There are far more important things to get passionate about. Star Trek fans should be fighting to change the world for the better, not just fighting over the fate of characters in made-up stories.
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Old December 31 2011, 08:46 PM   #47
JD
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
but I honestly can't take it any longer, and I'm getting to a point where if it starts up again I might just have to give up the boards. I honestly think at times that this place saved my life when I started having medical problems and was really miserable, so I really don't want to have to stop coming here.
Over react much?

If it hurts your sensibilities so much, just keep out of the thread in question instead of making a lame threat you won't follow through again - i.e. not using copyrighted images for your avatar.

As for this place saving your life, I'm sure the medication and the changes in lifestyle you implemented did all that.

Why do people take an internet discussion board about a fictional TV programme and it's related spin-offs so bloody seriously!
When I was unable to leave the house due to pain and/or paralysis coming here was one of the only things I had to look forward to, and was the only place that I was able to socialize outside of my family. And I really wonder how I would have coped with my problems if I didn't have a place like this to come and enjoy myself. So yes it is very important to me. And for your information I have tried dozens of medications, and changed my lifestyle and it I continue to have medical problems. And it's not so much what we discuss that matters to me as much as it is a place for me to simply enjoy myself socializing with people who share my interests.
I'm always afraid if I skip a thread like this I might miss some sort of really cool, big announcement.
As for the whole copyrighted images thing, I figured that most of the board is using them and doesn't seem to have been ordered to stop, so I might as well just go back to using them.
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Old December 31 2011, 08:55 PM   #48
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

What I want to know is where this meme that Janeway's death was somehow related to sexism comes from? I know that there are a few hysterical fans that conclude that everything negative that happens to Janeway is somehow the result of sexism...but the fact that Janeway was killed off to sexism seems kind of out of left field. Especially since both Kirk (depending on the time frame) and Data are also dead in TrekLit continuity and were killed on screen.

What does her death have to do with sexism? The argument makes even less sense these days given that a large percentage of the characters in current TrekLit are women (more than was ever shown on any of the shows). In fact, it seems like the only reason that some people object to the death of her character was because she was a woman. Should female characters be exempt from death?
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Old December 31 2011, 09:05 PM   #49
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

According to some of the people out there, yes apparently. Janeway was the sole on-screen regular female captain, therefore no ills should befall her.

Of course, what these people fail to take into account is that she was one of the most badly written characters on the series and wasn't exactly an advert for well-written, well-developed women in TV. But they're blinded by their evangelical obssesive behaviour and overlook her flaws.

As my mum says, 'How sad are these people and don't they have anything better to do than worry about a TV show?'
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Old December 31 2011, 09:38 PM   #50
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
I know that there are a few hysterical fans that conclude that everything negative that happens to Janeway is somehow the result of sexism...but the fact that Janeway was killed off to sexism seems kind of out of left field.
What amazes me, when they play the gender card, is that it seems that they are essentially asking for the character to be wrapped in perpetual cotton wool, protected from harm by all the writers... because she is female?

If these fans had found out, via some secret, leaked, internal CBS memo, that their favourite female captain was so protected, while characters such as Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data and Trip were allowed to die heroic deaths, there'd still be a communal snarling and gnashing of teeth.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:04 PM   #51
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Admiral James Kirk wrote: View Post
I think a sign of good faith should be in order to take this petition seriously. The petitioners should all agree one a predetermined date to purchase a copy of the novel Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many which features a Janeway who is both alive and breathing.

Why should Pocket take a petition seriously if it doesn't guarantee them sales? Past petitioners have outright said they've never even purchased Voyager novels before and had no intention of buying them even if Janeway was brought back. They just wanted her brought back on principle. Well for a big corp like Pocket principle isn't reason enough. Especially if the Voyager A.D. books are selling well without her. If you want to see your hero brought back then you're going to need to put your money where your mouths are.

It ain't pretty but it's the way of the world. Pocket isn't in the business of making friends. They're in the business of making money. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

I have purchased Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many and I bought it because I knew Janeway was in it. In fact, I bought it twice. Once in paperback and then again as an e-book after I bought an iPad so I have it along with an impressive and growing number of ebooks to read through both the iBooks app and the Kindle app. I do buy their books. That doesn't make me any less a supporter of seeing Janeway return in the current book series.

It doesn't make me thin-skinned as I was called elsewhere in this thread.

I'm not rude to other posters. I expressed my opinion, and posted information which was obtained from the Bring Back Janeway group so if it was wrong, then it's wrong there too.

The point is simple that we, and a lot of others who I think won't speak up because they don't like dealing with the guff so many people at TrekBBS seem to feel it's their purpose in life to subject others to. If you don't agree, that's fine.

Really. It is. I know some people didn't like her. I know some people hated Voyager. They're allowed.

Just as I, and everyone else who has signed the petition, everyone who has joined the Bring Back Janeway group (895 members and growing all the time), are allowed to speak our minds. Express our disappointment in the current novels and our hope to see Admiral Janeway return.

It's really pretty simple and straightforward.

I'm going to continue to voice my support for a return of Admiral Janeway. No amount of trolls or rude responses will have any effect on it.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:09 PM   #52
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
CaptainDecember wrote: View Post

Maybe if Kirsten Beyer's novels had sucked maybe a way could have been found to bring her back.

Let her rest in piece. If she must come back let it be something involving a Rogue Q or something.
Of course she ISN'T resting in peace and is probably quite miserable and longing for death in her current condition. I like how you say it is a bad idea then are receptive IF it is interesting.

Of course it would be a Q story, no doubt a rogue Q story as I doubt the continuum agreed with what Q did. The probably don't like her for causing a civil war.

I would also wager that if VOY is this good without Janeway, it would be better with Janeway. TOS movies could have have been good with Spock remaining dead, but I'm glad they chose to restore an icon and fan favorite.

I think bringing back Janeway would be a nice gift to fans, better than the "these are the voyages" valentine, but doing it for the fans and not because it is part of a great plot would go badly.
Thank you MatthiasRussell for your statement. As I've said, I know some people didn't like Voyager or it's Captain and that's fine.

We're asking for her return because how else can you hope to get the word out to the author, to the publishers, to those in charge if we don't speak up?

I've read all the books without Janeway and they left me disappointed. You expressed it well.. the books without her had potential, but with her they would have been so much more enjoyable. At least for me, and all of the others in the Bring Back Janeway group...

And as I said in another thread, if not THIS series.. why not in a new series, from an alternate reality such as was created by the 2009 movie?

All we're saying is we want her back in the books. I hadn't thought about it as being in an alternate novel series before I read someone here talk about it but for me.. that would be a positive response.

I just would like to have more books with her as part of the story..
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Old December 31 2011, 10:13 PM   #53
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Having read "Watching the Clock", I wonder if, in a reality where Janeway didn't die in "Before Dishonor", there are "Get Janeway out of jail!" petitions?
They'd be right next to the "Get James T. Kirk Out of Jail" petitions after he stole the Enterprise.. *wink

And no I am not trying to stir up a fuss so please take it in the spirit it was meant.. laugh, smile and have a great New Years!


To be honest, that's my favorite scene from the TOS films, when Kirk stole the Enterprise ..
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Old December 31 2011, 10:19 PM   #54
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
To the OP:
1) I'm not sure what world you're living in, but online petitions dealing with fictional properties are rarely given any credence, and are even more rarely successful
Really? Guess you didn't see this most recent proof that online petitions DO indeed make a difference if people are willing to stop seeking the negative in life and just give it a try


http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...twork-outages/


And I quote from the article:

A petition on Change.org against it had gathered more than 57,000 names on Friday afternoon.

It's not as news worthy as Verizon's attempt to add yet another fee to their services, but it proves the point. Online petitions can make a difference, you just have to be willing to try.

And while we have no where near that many signatures we're at least willing to try. If not in this current book series, then in another alternate reality perhaps.

All we're saying is we want new books, new stories with Kathryn Janeway involved. You can disagree all you want. You're allowed.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:41 PM   #55
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

JD wrote: View Post
This has nothing to do with you personally, and honestly I don't find the idea of bringing Janeway back totally offensive. My problem is the fact that this comes up almost once a week, and every time it comes up it ends up turning into the exact same argument, practically down to every letter. And to be honest it's starting to get very old.
I understand you people feel very strongly about this, but do you really have to flood the boards with never ending arguments every week? I'll apologize in advance if this post inappropriate, but I honestly can't take it any longer, and I'm getting to a point where if it starts up again I might just have to give up the boards. I honestly think at times that this place saved my life when I started having medical problems and was really miserable, so I really don't want to have to stop coming here.
I can understand you get tired of it. But let me just say..

The fact that it keeps being discussed, shouldn't that be an indication that 1) There are more people who wish to see her back than you (and the publishers and Kirsten Beyer) which to admit, and 2) We're just growing in numbers with each book that doesnt have her.

As I've said elsewhere..

If this particular storyline just can't be adapted for her return, which would in my opinion be a sad indication that someone just isn't very creative since she wasn't really dead but was taken to the Continuum, and all a Q needs to do is decide to send her back..


Then what about a new alternate reality timeline where she isn't dead, and continue that way?

I guarantee Pocket Books would sell more than enough copies of both timelines, with Janeway and those without.. to make it worth the effort.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:46 PM   #56
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

^You know, you can select multiple different posts to quote in the same single response by using the "Multi Quote" button. It's actually against board rules to post multiple replies back-to-back.
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Old December 31 2011, 10:57 PM   #57
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Christopher wrote: View Post
^You know, you can select multiple different posts to quote in the same single response by using the "Multi Quote" button. It's actually against board rules to post multiple replies back-to-back.
My apologies, I did not see the 'multi-quote' button, it was obscured as I had the browser window reduced and partially blocked while also working on yet another form for an insurance issue I'm dealing with (gotta love it..). I will use it in the future if I need to. Thank you for pointing that out.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:06 PM   #58
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Syn.Sixx wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Having read "Watching the Clock", I wonder if, in a reality where Janeway didn't die in "Before Dishonor", there are "Get Janeway out of jail!" petitions?
They'd be right next to the "Get James T. Kirk Out of Jail" petitions after he stole the Enterprise.. *wink

And no I am not trying to stir up a fuss so please take it in the spirit it was meant.. laugh, smile and have a great New Years!


To be honest, that's my favorite scene from the TOS films, when Kirk stole the Enterprise ..

Actually, the only way I would support bringing back Janeway would be if there was a guarantee that she would be publicly prosecuted and jailed for her actions in "Endgame." We've learned since her death that her actions led directly to the Borg's decision to invade and kill 60 Billion people. She is directly responsible for the devastation that befell the Federation. She died before the events of Destiny, so it was thought that she paid a price for he criminal behavior. However, if she is alive, there is no reason for her to walk free. She would have to be punished for her actions.

Janeway committed serious breaches of Federation law. There is no way you can justify her walking free after what she's done. My favorite part of "Watching the Clock" was Lucsly's absolute disgust at Janeway's behavior and anger at the uptime agents for letting her off the hook. Clearly they knew that Janeway would pay the ultimate price for her arrogance so there was no point in punishing her or undoing what she did (especially since they benefitted from her crime). But if she were to return, she would still need to face a severe penalty and own up to her role in the death of billions.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:22 PM   #59
Syn.Sixx
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
I know that there are a few hysterical fans that conclude that everything negative that happens to Janeway is somehow the result of sexism...but the fact that Janeway was killed off to sexism seems kind of out of left field.
What amazes me, when they play the gender card, is that it seems that they are essentially asking for the character to be wrapped in perpetual cotton wool, protected from harm by all the writers... because she is female?

If these fans had found out, via some secret, leaked, internal CBS memo, that their favourite female captain was so protected, while characters such as Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data and Trip were allowed to die heroic deaths, there'd still be a communal snarling and gnashing of teeth.
What amazes me, is that you can sit over there and list those characters, all male.. who died in various books or series events. Of those you name Therin, "Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data, and Trip", how many are alive and well now in the books?

Spock is alive. (In fact there are 2 of him now in the 2009 movie-verse)

Kirk is very much alive and well.

Trip is alive and well in Enterprise' relaunch books...

I'm not sure about Sisko because I'll be honest, haven't read the DS9 based books so I can't speak to it and so won't, though I seem to recall someone on another board, possibly here stating that he'd returned but again, I am not sure on that score as I wasn't really a DS9 fan, and I know Data is not restored.

But for certain, 3 of your 5 characters who died were brought back.

So why then do you insist that we're so out of line to say we want to see Kathryn Janeway back?

Your own bias is showing just a bit.

We want to see Kathryn Janeway back in the book series, if not the current one then in another.. And nothing you say or do, will ever change that.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:36 PM   #60
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Re: Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Syn.Sixx wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
I know that there are a few hysterical fans that conclude that everything negative that happens to Janeway is somehow the result of sexism...but the fact that Janeway was killed off to sexism seems kind of out of left field.
What amazes me, when they play the gender card, is that it seems that they are essentially asking for the character to be wrapped in perpetual cotton wool, protected from harm by all the writers... because she is female?

If these fans had found out, via some secret, leaked, internal CBS memo, that their favourite female captain was so protected, while characters such as Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data and Trip were allowed to die heroic deaths, there'd still be a communal snarling and gnashing of teeth.
What amazes me, is that you can sit over there and list those characters, all male.. who died in various books or series events. Of those you name Therin, "Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data, and Trip", how many are alive and well now in the books?

Spock is alive. (In fact there are 2 of him now in the 2009 movie-verse)

Kirk is very much alive and well.

Trip is alive and well in Enterprise' relaunch books...

I'm not sure about Sisko because I'll be honest, haven't read the DS9 based books so I can't speak to it and so won't, though I seem to recall someone on another board, possibly here stating that he'd returned but again, I am not sure on that score as I wasn't really a DS9 fan, and I know Data is not restored.

But for certain, 3 of your 5 characters who died were brought back.

So why then do you insist that we're so out of line to say we want to see Kathryn Janeway back?

Your own bias is showing just a bit.

We want to see Kathryn Janeway back in the book series, if not the current one then in another.. And nothing you say or do, will ever change that.

KIRK IS DEAD....HE DIED ON VERIDIAN III! He was never resurrected in Trek Lit. The Shatner books are NOT a part of the mainstream Trek books...they are a special series written by Shatner that have no impact on any other corner of Trek Lit. As far as every other Trek book is concerned, James Kirk met his maker in Generations.

How about this...please tell us when Benjamin Sisko DIED?

I seem to recall that he was taken to commune with the Prophets and that he SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIS WIFE (who in turn told everyone else) that he was alive and well and that would return to her a Jake when he was finished with the Prophets. But I'll admit that I might have missed the part where he was killed...so enlighten us please.
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