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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 27 2011, 03:54 AM   #1
Guy Gardener
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What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet?

The Federation would have to be idiots not to put a base there.

To stop idiots using the Guardian and to remain protected when other idiots pervert time, so that they can put right that which once went wrong and maintain the intgrity of the federation.

So in Future Tense, that's the first place O'Brien and Kira should have contacted or tried to contact. Actually, anyone within 300 feet of the Orb of time is probably protected as well, so that Bugger should be placed slap in the middle of the seat of Bajoran power (Even though the Klingons had it at that point.)... But whosoever is in charge of the federation base on the Guardians planet (TOS From City on the Edge of Forever) would have to be prepared and trained to be a back up and emergency replacement Government for the Federation after it falls from a temporal apocalypse, every time it falls from a temporal apocalypse.

Just saying.
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Old December 27 2011, 04:39 AM   #2
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Federation would have to be idiots not to put a base there.

To stop idiots using the Guardian and to remain protected when other idiots pervert time, so that they can put right that which once went wrong and maintain the intgrity of the federation.
For whatever it's worth, the novel Crucible: Provinence of Shadows establishes that the final voyage of the U.S.S. Enterprise's five-year mission saw Captain Kirk and crew defending the Federation outpost at the Guardian of Forever's world from a Klingon attack fleet. The Enterprise defeated the Klingon fleet, but at the cost of one of the Klingon ships slamming into the Guardian's base itself, vaporizing it and most of the planet. The Enterprise itself was badly damaged, nearly crippled, and this led directly to its TMP-era refit.

So in Future Tense, that's the first place O'Brien and Kira should have contacted or tried to contact.
I assume you're referring to "Past Tense, Parts I & II," which features O'Brien and Kira attempting to rescue Sisko, Bashir, and Dax from the 2030s.

Actually, anyone within 300 feet of the Orb of time is probably protected as well, so that Bugger should be placed slap in the middle of the seat of Bajoran power (Even though the Klingons had it at that point.)
At the point of "Past Tense" (mid-2371), the Orb of Time was in the possession of the Cardassian Union. And we don't know that being near the Orb of Time would protect anyone from changes in history.
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Old December 27 2011, 05:07 AM   #3
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

The Universe "changed" around the Defiant when Del Varna... NO. Arne Darvin (Dyslexic much?) used the orb to travel back in time. Of Course, the Prophets could have have been monitoring the situation and "saved" the Defiant, or it could have been Sisko's latent heridity kicking in... But at first glace there's always the eye of the storm to consider that the orb itself probaly doesn't want to be "altered" by time.

The Fan Film in Harms Way has an archeological team finding a much larger Guardian which Kirk (Well, Sulu.) flew the Enterprise through.
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Old December 27 2011, 06:11 AM   #4
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Federation would have to be idiots not to put a base there.
IIRC "Yesteryear" (TAS) correctly, and elaboration from Alan Dean Foster in the novelization, there was an historians' outpost there. Loom Aleek-Om the Aurelian was posted there.
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Old December 27 2011, 06:18 AM   #5
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Add it to the list of things the 24th Century forgot they had, along with Androids.
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Old December 27 2011, 07:32 AM   #6
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Who needs the Guardian anyway, just sling shot around the nearest sun! Yet another concept (along with the guardian and orb) that should not have been introduced. A reliable form of time travel destroys conventional story telling by removing drama. Or makes stories overly complex by trying to account for it.
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Old December 27 2011, 07:53 AM   #7
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Every time the universe is changed by some bugger slingshotting around a sun, whosoever is camped on the Guardians world remains unaffected.

Sometimes the Federation falls, and sometimes there's no noticeable change.

of course who ever is camped down there has to decide if some new empires are too bountiful to chance reversing, and then, can that new Federation really trust the refugees holding the Guardians World who claim enough moral superiority to not at the moment feel like destroying the Federation. So really it's an act of self to defence to re prioritize their original timeline as the most probable to exist.
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Old December 27 2011, 07:56 AM   #8
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Universe "changed" around the Defiant when Del Varna... NO. Arne Darvin (Dyslexic much?) used the orb to travel back in time.
No, it didn't. That was just the entire Defiant itself being sent back through time.
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Old December 27 2011, 09:34 AM   #9
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

The Defiant wasn't jaunting about in time. O'Brien and Kira were being transported back and forth through time from the present where the defiant stayed put.

But because of a relative connection between what Sisko was doing and O'Brien was doing, the "present" didn't change until hours later for O'Brien when "respectively" hours after his arrival, Sisko accidentally aided in the murder of Gabriel Bell, a man who had a destiny interrupted.

(Kira and O'Brien are in civilian clothing.)
KIRA: All right, Chief, let's get over to the transporter room before we change our minds.
O'BRIEN: Too late, Major. It looks like Starfleet's changed our minds for us. Headquarters thinks our plan's too risky. They're afraid that while we're searching for Sisko and the others, we may contaminate the timeline.
KIRA: Get me Admiral Wright.
O'BRIEN: I had a feeling you'd say that. That's odd.
KIRA: What is it?
O'BRIEN: I'm not getting any response from Starfleet.
ODO: Is there something wrong with our communications array? I was just talking to Starfleet Security when my comm. line went dead.
O'BRIEN: There's nothing wrong on our end. Everything checks out fine.
KIRA: Could be interference on the comm. channels. Try a wide band subspace signal.
O'BRIEN: Still nothing. Maybe if I direct it toward one of the Federation communications satellites in Earth orbit.
ODO: What is it, Chief?
O'BRIEN: They're not there. The entire Earth satellite network is gone.
KIRA: The spacedocks? The orbital habitats?
O'BRIEN: All of it. The Utopia Planitia yards on Mars, the terraforming stations on Venus, Starfleet Headquarters. I'm not detecting a single sign of Starfleet activity anywhere in this sector.
KIRA: Try a non-Federation frequency.
O'BRIEN: The only subspace signals I'm detecting are coming from the vicinity of Alpha Centauri. And they're Romulan.
KIRA: That's impossible.
ODO: Do you think Sisko and the others might have somehow altered the timeline?
O'BRIEN: They must have.
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Old December 27 2011, 12:49 PM   #10
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Defiant wasn't jaunting about in time. O'Brien and Kira were being transported back and forth through time from the present where the defiant stayed put.

But because of a relative connection between what Sisko was doing and O'Brien was doing, the "present" didn't change until hours later for O'Brien when "respectively" hours after his arrival, Sisko accidentally aided in the murder of Gabriel Bell, a man who had a destiny interrupted.

(Kira and O'Brien are in civilian clothing.)
KIRA: All right, Chief, let's get over to the transporter room before we change our minds.
O'BRIEN: Too late, Major. It looks like Starfleet's changed our minds for us. Headquarters thinks our plan's too risky. They're afraid that while we're searching for Sisko and the others, we may contaminate the timeline.
KIRA: Get me Admiral Wright.
O'BRIEN: I had a feeling you'd say that. That's odd.
KIRA: What is it?
O'BRIEN: I'm not getting any response from Starfleet.
ODO: Is there something wrong with our communications array? I was just talking to Starfleet Security when my comm. line went dead.
O'BRIEN: There's nothing wrong on our end. Everything checks out fine.
KIRA: Could be interference on the comm. channels. Try a wide band subspace signal.
O'BRIEN: Still nothing. Maybe if I direct it toward one of the Federation communications satellites in Earth orbit.
ODO: What is it, Chief?
O'BRIEN: They're not there. The entire Earth satellite network is gone.
KIRA: The spacedocks? The orbital habitats?
O'BRIEN: All of it. The Utopia Planitia yards on Mars, the terraforming stations on Venus, Starfleet Headquarters. I'm not detecting a single sign of Starfleet activity anywhere in this sector.
KIRA: Try a non-Federation frequency.
O'BRIEN: The only subspace signals I'm detecting are coming from the vicinity of Alpha Centauri. And they're Romulan.
KIRA: That's impossible.
ODO: Do you think Sisko and the others might have somehow altered the timeline?
O'BRIEN: They must have.
Dude, you're thinking of "Past Tense." "Past Tense" didn't feature the Orb of Time, at all. The time travel in that episode was caused by random technobabble particle winds passing through the solar system and messing up the Defiant's transporter beam. The Orb of Time didn't appear until two seasons later, in "Trials and Tribble-ations," when it sent the entire Defiant back in time to the 2260s.
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Old December 27 2011, 01:26 PM   #11
Guy Gardener
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

I was saying that the orb of time existed, not that it was involved in past tense.

I mistakenly thought it was generating a protective field on Klingon because I'm an idot, but it was actually generating a protective field on Cardassia.

But by season 5, the Bajoran Government/Clergy would have had the orb of time and you'd have to wonder if they take advantage of it to defend against the pressure of foreign timelines coming to dominance, just like the Federation would use the Guardian, or might the Bajorans prefer ignorance and oblivion like Janeway decided for herself at the Conclusion of Year of Hell.

Temporal panic rooms if you will.
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Old December 31 2011, 11:51 AM   #12
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

There is nothing to suggest that the orb of time could protect anyone in its vicinity from temporal shifts. The defiant in that episode traveled back in time, and if there is one consistent thing in the way time travel is portrayed in Trek, is that a traveler to the past is protected from any change he\she may do to his future\past (contrary to, say, the way it works in back to the future).
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Old December 31 2011, 01:27 PM   #13
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

FYI, for anyone interested, the Star Trek Novel, DTI: Watching the Clock explains a lot of these questions. It touches on the Orb of Time and why no one uses either The Guardian nor the slingshot effect.
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Old December 31 2011, 01:56 PM   #14
Guy Gardener
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

Sci wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Universe "changed" around the Defiant when Del Varna... NO. Arne Darvin (Dyslexic much?) used the orb to travel back in time.
No, it didn't. That was just the entire Defiant itself being sent back through time.
Oh my!

Well, that's entirely a horse of a different colour.
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Old January 1 2012, 02:04 AM   #15
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Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

If I were the CnC of Starfleet, I would make sure that the Guradian planet was need to know. And in my view a Chief of Operations of a starbase doesn't need to know.
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