RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,719
Posts: 5,214,745
Members: 24,211
Currently online: 709
Newest member: dmhp32


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old December 16 2011, 02:24 AM   #91
Trekkie2
Commander
 
Trekkie2's Avatar
 
Location: Same place, different universe
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

I like both movies and I would not pass up the chance to watch either over most reality shows, anything but Terra Nova on Monday nights, and WWE on Syfy (how the hell did that happen?).
Trekkie2 is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 02:30 AM   #92
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Yeah, I don't like Nemesis, but I don't like Trek09 either. Yet I'm still a huge Star Trek fan regardless. Still, don't you think it's funny that Trek09 and Nemesis share many similar elements with each other?

- Both reference Wrath of Khan.
- Both have a self-indulging car chase moment that doesn't do anything important.
- Both tried to appeal to a wider audience (One worked, one didn't)
- Both feature a villain who is bald, worked as miners for the Romulans, have a ship with superior technology, a vendetta against a particular crew member on the Enterprise and a planet destroying weapon that is later used against them.
- Both feature a piece of transporter technology that should change the very nature of space travel, but will most likely be forgotten in the next installment.
Yeah it's amazing, isn't it?
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 02:34 AM   #93
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Yeah, I don't like Nemesis, but I don't like Trek09 either. Yet I'm still a huge Star Trek fan regardless. Still, don't you think it's funny that Trek09 and Nemesis share many similar elements with each other?

- Both reference Wrath of Khan.
- Both have a self-indulging car chase moment that doesn't do anything important.
- Both tried to appeal to a wider audience (One worked, one didn't)
- Both feature a villain who is bald, worked as miners for the Romulans, have a ship with superior technology, a vendetta against a particular crew member on the Enterprise and a planet destroying weapon that is later used against them.
- Both feature a piece of transporter technology that should change the very nature of space travel, but will most likely be forgotten in the next installment.
Yeah it's amazing, isn't it?

yeah, I brought up the "they're more similar than people think" thing earlier. It is kind of ironic. Just goes to show how much proper execution counts.

also, both have a weakly motivated central villain whose resentment at one of the heroes makes no sense whatsoever.
sonak is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 02:44 AM   #94
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

sonak wrote: View Post

also, both have a weakly motivated central villain whose resentment at one of the heroes makes no sense whatsoever.
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired.

Shinzon is just whiney.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 02:46 AM   #95
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post

also, both have a weakly motivated central villain whose resentment at one of the heroes makes no sense whatsoever.
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired.

Shinzon is just whiney.
Didn't Shinzon spend almost the same time in a mine?
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 02:51 AM   #96
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Well, yeah, but he didn't know any better. Nero was a good, honest man who lost everything. Shinzon grew up in a mine and won his freedom by focusing his work on overthrowing the Romulans. Then, suddenly, he decides to destroy Earth...for what reason?

Shinzon really didn't bother me until the back half of the film when he started dying and went crazy. Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 03:51 AM   #97
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired. Shinzon is just whiney.
Except that Nero wasn't ever in prison...they cut that plotline out. All he did was just sit around in his gigantic spaceship for 25 years.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes.
That happens quite a lot actually. I'm constantly surprised by what the human body will endure and keep running "normally".
Tosk is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 04:43 AM   #98
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Tosk wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired. Shinzon is just whiney.
Except that Nero wasn't ever in prison...they cut that plotline out. All he did was just sit around in his gigantic spaceship for 25 years.
Well, that would be enough to drive me nuts.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes.
That happens quite a lot actually. I'm constantly surprised by what the human body will endure and keep running "normally".
Um...I'm going to need you to cite instances where this happens "a lot." I am personally unaware of many real people who have been impaled.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 09:50 AM   #99
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

trek_futurist wrote: View Post
.....Well, quite simply put, you are not a Star trek fan.
"Fan" is a dimminutive form of "fanatic", and being a fanatic about something doesn't mean you have to agree with other fans about it. As such, you proceed from a fatally flawed presumption ergo the rest of your original post is moot.
__________________
* * *
“The absence of limitations is the enemy of art.”
― Orson Welles
Maurice is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 10:10 AM   #100
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Um...I'm going to need you to cite instances where this happens "a lot." I am personally unaware of many real people who have been impaled.
http://www.mydailynews.com.au/story/...ed-on-7m-pole/

http://www.newscentralga.com/news/lo...135552458.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-boundary-wall (Died, but took 15 hours)

http://www.pottsmerc.com/articles/20...1292080792.txt

http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news..._fall/?ref=rss

These are all from a sixty second Google search, so I could keep going quite easily.
Tosk is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 10:19 AM   #101
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Tosk wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Um...I'm going to need you to cite instances where this happens "a lot." I am personally unaware of many real people who have been impaled.
http://www.mydailynews.com.au/story/...ed-on-7m-pole/

http://www.newscentralga.com/news/lo...135552458.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-boundary-wall (Died, but took 15 hours)

http://www.pottsmerc.com/articles/20...1292080792.txt

http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news..._fall/?ref=rss

These are all from a sixty second Google search, so I could keep going quite easily.
But wasn't the original posit here that "Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes." You've cited people being impaled, but I don't see they were walking right afterwards.
__________________
* * *
“The absence of limitations is the enemy of art.”
― Orson Welles
Maurice is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 10:43 AM   #102
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

We're gonna argue actual steps? Shinzon took all of, what...one and a half steps before dying? Whereas all but one of these example dudes lived.

Doesn't matter anyway, I was just pointing out that people survive much worse and often. I have no stake in the matter, so I'll leave it up to someone else to argue semantics from this point on.
Tosk is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 11:33 AM   #103
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post

also, both have a weakly motivated central villain whose resentment at one of the heroes makes no sense whatsoever.
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired.

Shinzon is just whiney.
While Shinzon did come across as whiney, his sanity was definitely impared, too. He was raised in a mine, and abused by Romulans since he was a child. How would that NOT fuck someone up severely, even Picard?
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 01:06 PM   #104
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Tosk wrote: View Post
We're gonna argue actual steps? Shinzon took all of, what...one and a half steps before dying? Whereas all but one of these example dudes lived.

Doesn't matter anyway, I was just pointing out that people survive much worse and often. I have no stake in the matter, so I'll leave it up to someone else to argue semantics from this point on.
Yes, we're gonna argue actual steps. I know people survive crazy shit all the time. Shinzon got impaled, and then not only walked, but grabbed the random spike and pulled himself forward. Why? What was the point of that? To prove that he's batshit crazy?
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline  
Old December 16 2011, 01:59 PM   #105
horatio83
Commodore
 
Re: If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

It is clear that Shinzon and Nero resemble each other in many way. They are very bad Khan copies, an example for how you cannot pick some random elements out of a character of a good movie and expect them to work in your movie if you totally ignore everything else from the good movie that inspired you.
Call it heresy but at least on a script level that ignores Montalban's fine acting TWOK is not a good movie because of but in spite of Khan.
horatio83 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
nemesis, philosophy, science, star trek (2009 film)

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.