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Old December 13 2011, 07:47 AM   #76
YARN
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

The Enterprise is a fantasy shape with fantasy technology, so it is not like the real world is dictating what it should look like. Arguments about updating the design are a bit silly. Update a fantasy shape from a fantasy world? There is no external criterion by which we could "update" it.

EX: The Millennium Falcon is designed with a cockpit lifted from WWII bombers; it was retro even back in '77, but I've never heard anyone complain that you couldn't put the Falcon on the screen again.


The Enterprise, like the Faclon, is iconic. It is a classic shape that even casual sci-fi fans admire and recognize.

What matters is that when you see the thing on screen it looks like a genuinely massive object that exists in space. The lights should not look like disguised Christmas tree lights. The ship should not look like a plastic model or a CGI-cartoon. Could a modified TOS E be rendered to fit the bill? Yes, I think so.
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Old December 13 2011, 08:33 AM   #77
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

Of course, and Star Wars fans WANTED to see the Falcon on in the prequels, with all their CGI goodness. I think the original Enterprise can be done the same way.
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Old December 13 2011, 08:44 AM   #78
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

Wingsley wrote: View Post
I agree that the "TOS revisited" work that Vektor and deg3D did would not be enough for a modern movie. But let's not forget: ENT was on TV as recently as several years ago. The NX-01 sustained lots of continuity-based criticisms, but it was still basically a de-evolution of the TOS Jefferies design. They didn't need marital aids for nacelles or anything like that. It worked. Despite faults found with ENT, it had its moments and it made it to the end of its fourth year, all in this new millennium. That's still pretty respectable.

I'd say this argument that "you can't just throw a 1960's TV prop onto the Big Screen and expect the audience to buy it" is valid, but oversold. If you wanted to use the same basic design as TOS but make it "work" for the cinema screen, you would need to do more than Vektor or deg3D, but you don't have to seriously alter the design. I think you would have to do something a little different with the front-end nacelle caps. The whirring lights and the cap arrangement itself might need some work, but not a significantly different shape. Vektor had some good ideas with subtle changes to the nacelle lines, but I would try out some different FX for the lighting inside the cap. deg3D was really onto something with the aft nacelle cap. It makes the nacelles look hollow, almost like you can envision high-energy machinery inside with the light peeking out those openings in the rear cowl. Vektor did a great job updating the saucer; I'd say the lower vortex and the upper structures would need a little more detail and work. The rest looks fine. Maybe just a little more hull detail. So maybe if you took some of the things Vektor did and combined them with some of the things deg3d did, and developed it a little further, you'd be in the neighborhood. YMMV.

That's if the script were to call for essentially the same kind of ship seen in TOS.

The bridge in the 2009 movie, combined with other concerns about the ship's size and the nature of that movie, seemed to suggest something different would be in order. As I stated upthread, a distorted TMPprise concept would automatically be a target for derision, and for good reason. If you're going to reboot, then reboot. Show us something even more different from the TOSprise than the TNGprise was. Show us something new.

It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the immediate story and the creative direction of the franchise (assuming there is one).
Yep. Plus look at a Mirror Darkly, how many of us were wowed when we saw the Defiant in that one. I was impressed, and the bridge set was excellent, as was the other parts of it. And look at Doctor Who today, they are STILL using the police box design, despite there has been no police boxes commonly seen for like 30 years, yet it still works. Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.

However, years after watching the movie and being "okay" with it as a film, but not as Star Trek, I've come to terms with my disappointment. I realize that the producers of 2009 Trek just did what anyone in their position would do: Make the movie they think others would want to watch by adding their own artistic flair. Did they succeed? Yes. Did they fail? Yes. It all depends on who's watching. The purists versus the masses. And from a financial standpoint, they definitely succeeded.

I don't like the new style and new look, but that's just me. The JJPrise did look impressive on the big screen, but it wasn't the ship that I wanted to see. So I revved up my TOS DVDs when I got home and was satisfied.

Do I think the TOS Connie would look great on the big screen? You bet. But I can understand why others may think differently.

Just my two cents.
To me, JJ Trek was Star Trek in name only, and it pretty much was made just to appeal to Joe Sixpack, which is pretty much "do anything that you'd see in a summer action flick". And I myself think the original Enterprise could and would look great on a theater screen.
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Old December 13 2011, 06:58 PM   #79
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.
Get a new optometrist. Rose-tinted eyewear doesn't do wonders for one's vision.
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Old December 13 2011, 07:40 PM   #80
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

For some reason I read that as "Rose Tyler eyewear"!

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Old December 14 2011, 12:08 AM   #81
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.
Get a new optometrist. Rose-tinted eyewear doesn't do wonders for one's vision.

Since when do bike pumps, type writers, record players, record players, and so on look more advanced? Looks less like Galifrey and more like Sandford and Son.
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Old December 14 2011, 12:28 AM   #82
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

The classic series sets really aren't half as well finished as the Eccleston/Tennant and Smith console rooms. Even if the new ones do literally have junk as part of the controls.

The overall design is far more alien, more unique and more "Gallifrey", IMHO.
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Old December 14 2011, 01:39 AM   #83
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

The junk consoles and dingy console rooms that NuWho seem to love ruin part of the joke about the TARDIS that the old series kind of had. To lesser advanced species the high-techish console and simplistic sterile white room would give the impression it's a very advanced high end space/time machine, when in reality it's an outdated clunker several centuries out of warranty stolen from a repair bay.
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Old December 14 2011, 02:57 AM   #84
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

Supposedly, the rationale behind the current control panel set up is that with Gallifrey gone, so is any source of actual Tardis parts, even old ones, so he's had to resort to jerry rigging of a level that even the most hardcore redneck can only aspire to.
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Old December 14 2011, 05:14 PM   #85
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

Which is negated on screen when the Eccleston/Tennant console room is said to be a specific "desktop theme" rather than a repair job of a damaged console room. Plus the fact that Smith's console room was a brand new one also negates the jury rigged repairs idea for the junk console.
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Old December 14 2011, 05:27 PM   #86
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Yet the 2005 Tardis interiors and the current ones look more plastic, more junky than the classic ones, yet people seem to be cool with that.
Yeah, right. Everything about oldWho is cheap and cheesy compared to nuWho.

Yet another example of the reason that guys like Abrams and Chambliss and Davies are placed in positions to make these decisions and fan critics are not.
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Old December 14 2011, 06:09 PM   #87
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

As long as we're off-topic here discussing fan opinions of the TARDIS interior, I'd just like to share a link to another site detailing one fan's designs for an interior that seems to collect the best of both visions.
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Old December 14 2011, 06:16 PM   #88
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

It's a lot better than the oldWho versions, but still not up to snuff for a modern production with any ambition (and commensurate budget).
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Old December 14 2011, 07:14 PM   #89
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

i'm sure the producers of Doctor Who would be glad to know that their show is good enough that the public suspects that they actually have a "commensurate budget". when in fact, like all shows of the BBC, they make do with a relative pittance.
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Old December 14 2011, 09:35 PM   #90
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Re: The Improving the JJprise thread

"Relative" is the operative word there. They do very well.
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