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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old December 14 2011, 04:11 AM   #76
AdmiralScreed
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I just watched Parturition and Persistence of Vision. Here are my thoughts.

Parturition: Quite a good episode. As I expected we eventually would, we finally saw some conflict between Paris and Neelix over Kes. Seeing them come to respect one another in the end was very satisfying, and I really liked the reptilian "alien of the week." All in all, a very satisfying episode that featured some good develop for both Tom Paris and Neelix, and even Kes to a lesser extent.
7/10

Persistence of Vision: Next to Elogium, this is probably the weakest episode of the season so far. The alien of the week for this episode didn't make a lot of sense, and I didn't feel like there was a real focus throughout the episode. By the end I didn't feel like this episode had accomplished anything. It just dragged a lot and felt like complete filler. Not terrible, but definitely a big disappointment.
3/10
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Old December 14 2011, 04:17 AM   #77
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The unfortunate thing about Voyager is that most episodes are filler. Some of them are quite good filler, but very rarely will you see anything important happen.
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Old December 14 2011, 04:28 AM   #78
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
I just watched Parturition and Persistence of Vision. Here are my thoughts.

Parturition: Quite a good episode. As I expected we eventually would, we finally saw some conflict between Paris and Neelix over Kes. Seeing them come to respect one another in the end was very satisfying, and I really liked the reptilian "alien of the week." All in all, a very satisfying episode that featured some good develop for both Tom Paris and Neelix, and even Kes to a lesser extent.
7/10

Persistence of Vision: Next to Elogium, this is probably the weakest episode of the season so far. The alien of the week for this episode didn't make a lot of sense, and I didn't feel like there was a real focus throughout the episode. By the end I didn't feel like this episode had accomplished anything. It just dragged a lot and felt like complete filler. Not terrible, but definitely a big disappointment.
3/10
I feel just the opposite.
I enjoyed "Persistance...." better than "Parturition".
I think it was one of the few times while the character is still around, the series showed that Kes had potential to be so much more.
"Parturtion" seems petty.
With all the hot young women on Voyager, it just seemed stupid that Tom would set his sights on Kes and so blatantly in front of Neelix.
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Old December 14 2011, 04:32 AM   #79
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I think Voyager is great in it's own right. I think it could have been better. DS9 could have been better, too. I've been a bit of a snob to say voy isn't good. It is good. But I just happen to like DS9 better. It had better character development in my opinion. Voy started to get better right towards the end.
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Old December 14 2011, 04:34 AM   #80
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Re: Does It Get Better???

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
The unfortunate thing about Voyager is that most episodes are filler. Some of them are quite good filler, but very rarely will you see anything important happen.
The problem with "Persistence of Vision" is that it's not good filler. It's dull and nonsensical. A good filler episode would usually get a 5 or 6 from me, and on the rare occasion a 7 or higher. DS9 had a lot of filler episodes in the first few seasons, and even some in the later seasons during the Dominion War. Despite being filler, a lot of these episodes managed to be really entertaining and/or interesting. Some of my favorites included "Whispers" and "Little Green Men."
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Old December 14 2011, 04:37 AM   #81
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Paradon wrote: View Post
I think Voyager is great in it's own right. I think it could have been better. DS9 could have been better, too. I've been a bit of a snob to say voy isn't good. It is good. But I just happen to like DS9 better. It had better character development in my opinion. Voy started to get better right towards the end.
Agreed.
I think Voyager is a good show to introduce someone to Trek that's never seen Trek before. I also find Voy. a more modernized TOS, than DS9.
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Old December 14 2011, 05:03 AM   #82
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Re: Does It Get Better???

"Persistence of Vision", that was the one where it all turned out to be a sadistic telepath doing everything, right?

I LOVED the end confrontation between him and Janeway:

"Why, why did you do this to us?"

"...Because I can."

No justifications, no unintentional side-effects, just a flat-out sadistic bastard who wanted to inflict pain.
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Old December 14 2011, 05:59 AM   #83
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I have to agree that some of VOY is filler episodes, and some of the episodes I have watched are downright ridiculous. But there are quite a few good episodes in the series.
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Old December 14 2011, 02:28 PM   #84
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
With all the hot young women on Voyager, it just seemed stupid that Tom would set his sights on Kes and so blatantly in front of Neelix.
Not really, Kes was the hottest!

Regarding Persistence of Vision and Parturition. I liked the character interactions but overall both plots were pretty dull.
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Old December 14 2011, 11:04 PM   #85
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Re: Does It Get Better???

stj wrote: View Post
Paris' decision to save Harry is offscreen because seeing him come to the rescue is supposed to be a bravo moment.
When Han Solo swoops in to help Luke Skywalker at the end of Star Wars, it's a bravo moment, too. Supporting characters get those sometimes. But Luke's still the protagonist, not Han.

Harry's presumably dramatic decision to return to the ship may be technically on screen but it's not dramatized. There's no high point or exciting scene like Tom the Hero swooping in to save his friend.
They attempt to dramatize it when Harry finds out that his friend, Danny Byrd, is lost on the Voyager instead of him in this reality. But its not very successful -- Kim never seriously considers staying, even though he's been handed exactly what he wants. I've criticized this twice before, though.

Keeping the protagonist off screen isn't clumsy writing.
To the degree that the would-be protagonist is absent from nearly three-quarters of the story? Yeah it is.

There really isn't any reason why alternate Tom can't straighten up his act if he's really inspired to hope. Nor is there any reason why his situation is so dire as to merit suicide. (There's no reason to think any universes are destroyed in this scenario.) This weak motivation for Tom may be why the character didn't just dominate the story, even though all the heroics are due to him.
All the heroics aren't due to Tom. Harry isn't nearly as passive as you're suggesting.

Harry succeeds in nothing, other than, presumably, pleasing Libby during the fadeout.
Right. Except for getting home to Voyager, the only goal that matters.
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Old December 15 2011, 01:58 AM   #86
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
With all the hot young women on Voyager, it just seemed stupid that Tom would set his sights on Kes and so blatantly in front of Neelix.
Not really, Kes was the hottest!
She was one years old with fangs.

Lindsey Ballard was hotter.
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Old December 15 2011, 03:56 AM   #87
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The show isn't real life you know ;-)
And I found Kes really pretty, its hardly surprising Tom or Neelix would!
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Old December 15 2011, 04:24 AM   #88
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
With all the hot young women on Voyager, it just seemed stupid that Tom would set his sights on Kes and so blatantly in front of Neelix.
Not really, Kes was the hottest!
She was one years old with fangs.

Lindsey Ballard was hotter.
Does Lindsay still count Birthdays? or did she have to start formt he beginning again with Death Days?

So she was either half a year old dead, or forever 23?

Was she immortal.

Undead?

Living dead.

Or was she just a different sort of alive that was again ageing towards the same sort of death all over again?

You know, Kim could have mentioned Deadlock while hitting on Lindsay.

"At least you had a funeral. Captain Janeway didn't even think about turning the ship around to pick up my corpse fushed out into space."
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Old December 15 2011, 05:52 AM   #89
You_Will_Fail
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I think you guys are letting a few too many spoilers out!
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Old December 15 2011, 07:27 AM   #90
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Re: Does It Get Better???

How is it a spoiler to say that Lindsay fell through a hole in time only to eventually become the Mum from the Suite of Zack and Cody... harry's subsequent rescue mission during season 2 of Suite lIfe on Deck was a complete ballsup!

Harry can't swim.
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