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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 17 2012, 05:18 AM   #586
Harvey
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I was pretty young when that episode aired, but I've never seen that reaction on the internet. If it has been said, I'm sure it's not a widespread audience response. "Blood Fever" is an okay episode, with a great sense of foreboding at the end.

You've also claimed that fans hated "Scorpion," although I've found little evidence of that (though the reviewer in this thread does think it weakened the Borg; I don't).
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Old January 17 2012, 05:29 AM   #587
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The fans hardly hated Scorpion when millions more tuned in to see Part 2, and its still a highly rated episode among almost everybody.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:46 AM   #588
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Mainly because they were expecting it to be a 100-parter that would take over the entire series.

Once they realized that the show wasn't going to be a convoluted mess like that, they stopped liking "Scorpion" and used it as the starting point of the Borg's fall. Because it showed that it was possible for a Borg ship to take damage that wasn't a plot contrivance.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:48 AM   #589
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Ah yes, I keep forgetting you have a psychic link to every Star Trek watcher on the planet. Jeez, your shtick is getting old.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:51 AM   #590
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Anwar wrote: View Post
Mainly because they were expecting it to be a 100-parter that would take over the entire series.

Once they realized that the show wasn't going to be a convoluted mess like that, they stopped liking "Scorpion" and used it as the starting point of the Borg's fall. Because it showed that it was possible for a Borg ship to take damage that wasn't a plot contrivance.
Hyperbolic enough for you? Every time you talk about the audience which was critical of Star Trek: Voyager, you seem to be inventing their response out of thin air. It's not conducive to any kind of thoughtful discussion.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:04 AM   #591
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The fandom/hatedom says Voyager ruined the Borg, all the way from their first appearance, and never once got them "right".

The first major appearance of the Borg in Voyager was "Scorpion" (the corpse in "Blood Fever" and the breakaway group in "Unity" being nothing but standalone appearances that just served to annoy the hatedom because they still hated the stories regardless), and it is in this episode we're shown explicitly that the Borg aren't invincible nor are they the strongest race in the Trekverse. Thus, this is where the Borg's "fall" began because the story dared to show them as not utterly invincible and thus they were not done "right".

Audience says they never got them right, all the way from first appearance. "Scorpion" is first major appearance, so by correlation this story is not getting them 'right' and starts their 'fall'.

Its up to us to dissect the story as to why they feel this way, and I presented my reasons. Mainly that they're a bunch of hypocrites who liked it at first and later turned on it because it wasn't 100% what they wanted (a 100-parter).
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Old January 17 2012, 07:23 AM   #592
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Dude, Anwar. I'm as highly critical of Voyager as the next trekker, but where are you getting this bullshit?
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Old January 17 2012, 01:28 PM   #593
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I would respond to some of your points, Anwar, but you would probably just continue to call me a hypocrite and tell me that I am being completely unfair to the Borg in Scorpion. So, with that said I will move on to another episode.

The Gift: A nice farewell to Kes. I thought the ending, with Kes leaving the ship and transforming, felt a bit rushed, but it was still effective. I liked the way she cut ten years from Voyager's journey by getting them out of Borg space.
I didn't care a whole lot for any of the 7 of 9 scenes. She was very whiny, and just repeated her "We are Borg" line over and over.
All in all, a decent offering.
5/10
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Old January 17 2012, 04:47 PM   #594
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Re: Does It Get Better???

tighr wrote: View Post
Dude, Anwar. I'm as highly critical of Voyager as the next trekker, but where are you getting this bullshit?
16 years of observing fandom opinion, noticing any continuing opinion within those 16 years, checking various "What they should have done" topics for any commonalities, "What they did wrong" topics for commonalities, general disgust with Voyager and adding it all up together.

That, and a whole ton of double standard between the series.
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Old January 17 2012, 05:22 PM   #595
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I liked "The Gift" a bit more than you although I do feel it was a flawed episode.
Jeri Ryan's performance as the Borg is a bit too emotional for me and doesn't ring that true considering she spent most of her life as a Borg without experiencing emotions, however the dialogue between her and Janeway was very good I thought. Kes probably deserved a whole episode without a B-plot but at least it was a good send off and I enjoyed that she saved Seven's life at the beginning linking the two characters together, her emotional scenes with Janeway were fantastic but her scene with Neelix was a bit of a cop-out. I also felt it was a shame that she didn't get a scene with Tom before she left.
Overall, it was a good, if very bittersweet episode. I definitely feel like Kes had a lot of potential left in her, much more than Chakotay or Harry.
If I'd been in charge, I would have built an extended airponic/arboretum type set and have Kes moved there as well as being in sickbay. The place could act like a sanctuary and Kes could act as a somewhat unofficial counsellor/sounding board. And I think Kes/Seven interaction would have been very interesting to see - Seven could have learned a lot about femininity and getting in touch with her emotions from Kes.
What a waste!
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Old January 17 2012, 05:35 PM   #596
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Re: Does It Get Better???

^^^Agreed. I don't have much else to add.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:01 PM   #597
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I love "The Gift." I actually really enjoy the way that Jeri Ryan portrays Seven, and I love the interaction between her and Janeway in the brig. I get a little annoyed, however, with Kes's line, "This is my decision" as she's saying goodbye to the Captain. It seems insulting.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:09 PM   #598
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Re: Does It Get Better???

How is that insulting? It is her decision. And she knows by now that she can take a shuttle and go and Voyager won't be any worse for wear, because they can just use the shuttle-o-matic and pop a new one out in a matter of seconds.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:10 PM   #599
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
How is that insulting? It is her decision. And she knows by now that she can take a shuttle and go and Voyager won't be any worse for wear, because they can just use the shuttle-o-matic and pop a new one out in a matter of seconds.
Because it certainly wasn't Jennifer Lien's decision. It feels like a slap in the face to make her say it.
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Old January 17 2012, 06:12 PM   #600
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Oh haha. Yeah I see what you mean and I agree. Whenever I watch that episode, that line is always strikes me as very ironic. And Lien is trying to do this "Oh I'm so excited about the changes I'm going through" when she's clearly on the verge of tears.
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