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Old December 30 2011, 01:52 AM   #196
Anwar
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Gotham Central wrote: View Post

At no point on Voyager was it ever stated that the Kazon were following the ship. Had the done so and given a valid reason for that no one would complain.
I doubt that; if they HAD said it out loud (and I think they did) then the answer would just be that the idea of any antagonist following the good guys would be dumb (but it's okay on NuBSG and Farscape).
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Old December 30 2011, 02:46 AM   #197
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Re: Does It Get Better???

The Kazon didn't have to "follow" Voyager.

They had an insideman.

Michael fricking Jonas.
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Old December 30 2011, 03:56 AM   #198
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Anwar wrote: View Post
I doubt that; if they HAD said it out loud (and I think they did) then the answer would just be that the idea of any antagonist following the good guys would be dumb (but it's okay on NuBSG and Farscape).
I think it was already mentioned earlier, but the Cylons weren't "following" Galactica, they were CHASING it. The whole point of the show is that the Cylons had a vested interest in destroying the colonists.

Galactica was trying to get away from the Cylons. Voyager didn't give a rat's ass about the Kazon, because she was clearly superior to them.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:21 AM   #199
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I changed my mind and decided to watch Voyager instead of the blu rays I got for Christmas.

Resolutions: It was obvious from the beginning that they were going to find a cure for Janeway and Chakotay, so that made the rest of the episode rather predictable. I did like seeing Tuvok as the captain of Voyager, and I like the way he stood his ground against Kim and the rest of the crew. He really shouldn't have listened to them and contacted the Vidiians; from a story standpoint it was necessary because the show couldn't have gone on without Janeway and Chakotay, but if you look at the risk in contacting the Vidiians it was pretty damn stupid for Tuvok to rendezvous with them. I don't have much more to say about this one, other than it had its good moments.
5/10

Basics Part 1: Another excellent episode in the Kazon arc! This time around we see the crew of Voyager deceived by the Kazon and stranded on an alien planet. This episode had some really exciting plot twists, plenty of good action, a terrific cliffhanger, and also a few funny moments (the Doctor in space! ). I'm also happy that they revisited Suder. I was happy to see that he was making progress.
A very, very solid episode, and a terrific way to end season 2.
8/10

Basics Part 2: An extremely satisfying end to the Kazon arc, and a marvelous episode in its own right. This episode succeeded in every way possible. Seeing the Starfleet/Maquis officers make peace with the primitive tribe at the end was wonderful. The Doctor and Suder's sabotage of Voyager was exciting and Suder's death saving the ship was tragic. And on top of all that this was a very consequential episode; Seska died, Suder died, Voyager was retaken, and the Kazon arc came to a conclusion.
All in all, this is probably the best Star Trek season premiere I have ever watched, and it is at this point in time my favorite episode of Voyager.
10/10

I've gotta say, Voyager has REALLY improved. Right now I'm enjoying this show as much as I enjoyed TNG and DS9 when I first saw them.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:27 AM   #200
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I really enjoy the Doctor/Suder/Voyager parts of "Basics," but I couldn't stand the planet-side stuff. Voyager crew vs. Caveman aliens? And then they become best friends because Chakotay saves a girl who is too afraid to step over a lava pit. Oh, and Hogan gets eaten by a giant slug monster! I liked Hogan. I was pissed they killed him off.

..although we haven't seen the last of him.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:30 AM   #201
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Re: Does It Get Better???

As an update, here are all of my episode ratings for Voyager so far. I've gone back and reevaluated a number of episodes, so not all of my ratings are exactly the same as the first time around:


Season One
The Caretaker P1/P2 5
Parallax 6
Time and Again 5
Phage 5
The Cloud 4
Eye of the Needle 7
Ex Post Facto 5
Emanations 3
Prime Factors 7
State of Flux 7
Heroes and Demons 4
Cathexis 3
Faces 6
Jetrel 5
Learning Curve 6
Average: 5.2


Season 2
The 37’s 5
Initiations 3
Projections 6
Elogium 2
Non Sequitur 6
Twisted 6
Parturition 6
Persistence of Vision 3
Tatoo 2
Cold Fire 7
Maneuvers 7
Resistance 6
Prototype 6
Alliances 9
Threshold 3
Meld 7
Dreadnought 6
Death Wish 7
Lifesigns 5
Investigations 8
Deadlock 6
Innocence 3
The Thaw 9
Tuvix 6
Resolutions 5
Basics P1 8
Average: 5.7


Season 3
Basics P2 10
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Old December 30 2011, 05:31 AM   #202
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Ugh, Basics II was horrible. The only good part was, as you mention, Suder. He was phenomenal in that episode.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:33 AM   #203
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Re: Does It Get Better???

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I really enjoy the Doctor/Suder/Voyager parts of "Basics," but I couldn't stand the planet-side stuff. Voyager crew vs. Caveman aliens? And then they become best friends because Chakotay saves a girl who is too afraid to step over a lava pit. Oh, and Hogan gets eaten by a giant slug monster! I liked Hogan. I was pissed they killed him off.

..although we haven't seen the last of him.
I thought the crew of Voyager encountering the alien lifeforms and making peace with them was perfect Trek. I also liked seeing the crew adapt to living on a planet without their technology. They had to make use of their resources and work to together, which included learning to work with the other aliens.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:34 AM   #204
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Yeah...I guess...I just wish they hadn't been such a cliche group of savages.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:38 AM   #205
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Re: Does It Get Better???

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I just wish they hadn't been such a cliche group of savages.
That's a fair criticism, though it didn't bother me at all.

I must be in the minority for liking this episode so much. Looking back, I liked pretty much all of the Kazon episodes except for their brief appearances in season one and their first episode in season 2, "Initiations." Every Kazon episode after "Initiations" was gold, IMO.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:39 AM   #206
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Re: Does It Get Better???

That's funny. I actually liked Initiations, and think of it as one my my favorite Kazon episodes. I was surprised this thread hated it so much.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:40 AM   #207
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Honestly, I remember liking the episode a lot the first time I saw it, but that was a long time ago. TV always has a different impact the second time around.
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Old December 30 2011, 05:45 AM   #208
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Re: Does It Get Better???

tighr wrote: View Post
That's funny. I actually liked Initiations, and think of it as one my my favorite Kazon episodes. I was surprised this thread hated it so much.
Glad you liked it. Personally, I couldn't stand the child Kazon or the way the Kazon were portrayed as savage Klingon-copycats.
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Old December 30 2011, 08:15 AM   #209
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I hated "Inititations", I just found it ungodly boring but then I haven't rewatched it since I first saw it so maybe I need to.

Nice to see you couldn't keep away from Voyager Admiralscreed, I was the same when watching through the shows!

Regarding Basics - I felt it was a mediocre two parter with the second part really dragging Part I down.
I liked Part I - there was some mystery there and I absolutely loved the reveal when the computer tells Janeway the self-destruct sequence is offline due to the damage to the secondary command processors, Seska really outwitted them there.
As for Part II - didn't like the whole crewman vs primitive aliens stuff there either, and found the conclusion to be rushed which it pretty much was since Michael Piller had been jettisoned and everyone just wanted the Kazon arc to be over.
I thought it was pretty inexcusable that Seska was killed via exploding console and didn't even get any last words to Chakotay or anyone else for that matter.

Oh well onwards and downwards into season 3!
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Old December 30 2011, 09:41 AM   #210
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I do think Basics II perhaps wrapped up everything a little -too- effectively, which I guess is a little hypocritical of me to say since by that point I was also a bit tired of the Kazon. I was a little irritated with how nobody found Culluh's henchman's biological explosive, but oh well, overall it was a decent way to handle things.

Also, I thought it was somewhat a shame that in its first two seasons Voyager introduced all of these folks in Engineering, and by the end of the first episode of S3 they've all been eliminated from the show. It was nice having that string of secondary characters.
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