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Old November 4 2011, 10:41 PM   #31
Set Harth
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Saying prisoners "aren't nice people" is sort of mis-representing prisoners they could be any mix of people imprisoned for any number of reasons.
These are criminals put away by Dent, if I'm not mistaken. They're hardcore felons, not people rounded up for unpaid parking tickets or smoking a doobie.
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Old November 5 2011, 01:11 AM   #32
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Saying prisoners "aren't nice people" is sort of mis-representing prisoners they could be any mix of people imprisoned for any number of reasons.
These are criminals put away by Dent, if I'm not mistaken. They're hardcore felons, not people rounded up for unpaid parking tickets or smoking a doobie.
Dent was the DA, strictly speaking any criminal put in prison was "put there by him." And even if it was part of the large mob take down, that could range from the mob bosses to the made men down to the soldiers. So anything from crime-lords to the bitches who do the grunt work in the mob. They were also prisoners so, no, they wouldn't be the guys in jail for unpaid tickets or smoking a J, but still in prison there's ranges of criminals from people with too many DUIs, to car thieves up to your murderers.
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Old November 5 2011, 01:12 AM   #33
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

It was a boat full of people who committed tax fraud!
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Old November 5 2011, 01:18 AM   #34
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

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It was a boat full of people who committed tax fraud!
Nah, they'd all be in Arkham's White Collar Wing which is surprisingly nice and the uniforms are tennis shorts, polo shirts, Argyle socks and the sweater tied around their neck like a cape.
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Old November 5 2011, 01:22 AM   #35
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

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It was a boat full of people who committed tax fraud!
Nah, they'd all be in Arkham's White Collar Wing which is surprisingly nice and the uniforms are tennis shorts, polo shirts, Argyle socks and the sweater tied around their neck like a cape.
That's where they were being transported. Duh.
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Old November 5 2011, 03:08 AM   #36
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Joker wrote:
So, who's it going to be: Harvey Dent's most wanted scumbag collection, or the sweet and innocent civilians? You choose...
.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:11 AM   #37
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

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I can buy the ferry with the "normal people" not blowing up the other boat. Maybe. With some degree of squinting. Perhaps.

But the prisoners so totally would have nuked the other boat.

That's why they're prisoners in the first place.

They're not nice people.
Well... First off the prisoners didn't have control of the detonator, the warden/police did and were holding the prisoners at bay with weapons. Saying prisoners "aren't nice people" is sort of mis-representing prisoners they could be any mix of people imprisoned for any number of reasons. And I actually liked what happened on the prisoner side of things with the guy taking the detonator and just tossing it out the window.
Yeah, the scene was mostly about challenging your preconceptions by having the frightening criminal be the one who makes the clear moral choice, so in that sense I can see how people might find it a bit preachy and unrealistic, but I still liked it.

In regards to Set Harth's point, while they were a bunch of murderers, enforcers, and thugs, no one wants to be manipulated, not even criminals.

I could also easily see someone who might have no compunction against murdering a rival or a witness be opposed to being forced to commit the mass murder of innocent people by a terrorist. The mob has helped out during national, regional, or local crises before, even while still being scumbag criminals and opposing law enforcement (see the Japanese Yakuza's volunteerism during the recent Japanese earthquake/tsunami for one example). You can be a dirtbag and still do the moral thing every once in a while.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:16 AM   #38
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

No one wants to be manipulated, but if you're a thug type and your choices seem limited to:

1) allow yourself to be manipulated
2) probably get blowed up real good

...you're probably going to go with (2). Manipulated and alive is better than not manipulated and blowed up.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:24 AM   #39
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Joker wrote:
So, who's it going to be: Harvey Dent's most wanted scumbag collection, or the sweet and innocent civilians? You choose...
.
Again, Harvey was the (a) DA. All criminals in the prison system are "his" and I doubt the joker is going to be one to parse his words when it comes to distinguishing between a murderer and a car thief.

Yeah, the scene was mostly about challenging your preconceptions by having the frightening criminal be the one who makes the clear moral choice, so in that sense I can see how people might find it a bit preachy and unrealistic, but I still liked it.
And what made interesting was how on the prisoner boat the stand-out prisoner stood out and easily made the "right" choice, where as on the civilian boat the civilians actually considered blowing up the detonator and the most vocal of the civilians actually made an active attempt to use it!

Funnily, no one considered that The Joker had gave them their OWN detonator and just played the "you have the other one" card to see what would happen. Hell, it wouldn't have even had been beyond The Joker to have still blown the other boat up at the end just because of his love of chaos.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:26 AM   #40
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Again, Harvey was the (a) DA. All criminals in the prison system are "his" and I doubt the joker is going to be one to parse his words when it comes to distinguishing between a murderer and a car thief.
I would assume he says "most wanted" for a reason.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:31 AM   #41
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Again, Harvey was the (a) DA. All criminals in the prison system are "his" and I doubt the joker is going to be one to parse his words when it comes to distinguishing between a murderer and a car thief.
I would assume he says "most wanted" for a reason.
Again, he's The Joker. It's doubtful the things he says has any reason. There may have been other lines in the movie suggesting that these were some of the criminals taken down in the big mob bust but, again, they could be anyone from the Bosses down to the soldiers meaning they range from the criminal overlords down to the un-made guy who gets stuck roughing up the local union rep for the protection money. In fact, it's heavily suggested in the movie that Harvey and the Mayor knew the bosses and upper-level guys would make bail and be back on the streets while all of the lower-level guys would be stuck serving their sentences/going to trial.

But it certainly seemed to be a bit of a mix of various criminals, I doubt the Ving Rhames criminal was meant to be anyone involved with the mob if from the "moral choice" he made alone.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:35 AM   #42
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Ving Rhames? You mean Tiny Lister?
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Old November 5 2011, 04:39 AM   #43
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Yeah, him. I suspected Ving Rhames wasn't right but I gambled on it, not wanting to look it up.
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Old November 5 2011, 04:41 AM   #44
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Ving Rhames would have gotten medieval on that ass.
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Old November 5 2011, 05:08 AM   #45
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Re: Question about Batman's tactic in Dark Knight

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
But it certainly seemed to be a bit of a mix of various criminals, I doubt the Ving Rhames criminal was meant to be anyone involved with the mob if from the "moral choice" he made alone.
It was my impression that the 500 or so criminals on the ferry were the same 500 or so criminals which Dent had held as a criminal conspiracy under RICO, hence the necessity to get them out of Gotham before Joker or the mob could either find a way to free them amidst the chaos or find a way to kill them to prevent them from making deals with the DA.

So, yes, I think they were all directly connected with the mob.
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