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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 25 2011, 03:28 PM   #1
indolover
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How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warrior

To me, Gowron's last line in that ep is classic, both well written and acted. But the Klingons did forgive the Federation, since Gowron ended the brief season five war, and re-signed the Alliance.

Does forgiveness to Klingons only get promoted when infiltrators double-cross them?
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Old October 25 2011, 03:55 PM   #2
sonak
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

The line about "not forgiving" was said in the heat of the moment, out of anger. He didn't mean it literally.

Haven't you ever heard someone say "I'll never forgive you!" during a fight and then doing so later?


Angel told Wesley he'd never forgive him for taking Connor but he eventually did.
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Old October 25 2011, 04:02 PM   #3
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

I imagine the severity of the Dominion Invasion and the outrage that the defeated Cardassians were now ascendant pushed the Klingons into realizing there's more at stake than grudge-holding pride.
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Old October 25 2011, 04:04 PM   #4
Anwar
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

And also, the whole thing was pretty much set up by the Dominion via Changling Martok. Gowron said that he was the one who convinced him to dissolve the Khitomer Accords.
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Old October 25 2011, 09:52 PM   #5
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

The Klingons were kind of the aggressors there, so they should be apologizing.
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Old October 25 2011, 10:10 PM   #6
Ln X
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

The Klingons didn't forgive the Federation. But instead they cast what happened in The Way of the Warrior behind them as they focused on defeating the Dominion. The Klingons aren't stupid, they're not going to attack the Federation while fending off against the Dominion (that's what Gowron realized).
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Old October 25 2011, 10:32 PM   #7
MacLeod
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

Perhaps the decision to withdraw from the Khitomer Accords was mor Gowron's decision at the urging of a Founder, rather than the wish of the High Council. So perhaps only a handful supported the decision.

So perhaps to many Klingons there was nothing to forgive.
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Old October 26 2011, 11:42 AM   #8
Timo
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

What makes us think the Klingons forgave anything? They readily agree to fight alongside people they have not forgiven when it's the pragmatic thing to do - they even fight side by side with Romulans! Doesn't mean they wouldn't keep on carrying a grudge, or demanding reparations, or just whipping out a little black book and pointing at this entry whenever the UFP in turn tries to accuse them of wrongdoing.

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Old October 27 2011, 02:24 PM   #9
7thsealord
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

From his first appearance in TNG, Gowron came across as more of a politician than most Klingons (with the more flexible ethics and grasp of realpolitik of the former). In the early days, at least, it was clear that he did not particularly LIKE the Federation, but knew that they were certainly less untrustworthy than, say, the Romulans.

Then, too, seems to me that Klingons in general would not take kindly to being manipulated or tricked - especially by non-Klingons. Discovering how thoroughly they had been duped by the Founders may have been considered sufficient grounds to set aside most other bets and debts - at least until proper vengeance had been achieved.
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Old October 28 2011, 05:04 PM   #10
Jaro Stun
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

Based on how it seems that any "canon" future of early 25th century shown to us incorporates hostilities with Klingons of some sort, I have a feeling they actually never have forgiven / forgotten.
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Old October 28 2011, 10:17 PM   #11
Neutral Zone
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

Klingons are a proud warrior race, forgiveness is not really in their nature. But I would rather have them on my side than say the Romulans or Cardasians.
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Old October 29 2011, 04:08 AM   #12
Brutal Strudel
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

Once Worf killed Gowron and installed Martok, it was all academic anyway.
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Old October 29 2011, 05:53 AM   #13
Sjaddix
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Once Worf killed Gowron and installed Martok, it was all academic anyway.

Yeah pretty much this.
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Old October 29 2011, 10:41 AM   #14
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

A penny for your thoughts?
Well, here's my penny's worth of thoughts on this thread.
I think there were 2 turning points and they both happened in season 5. The first was the first episode of season 5 'Apocalypse Rising'. Sisko, O'Brien and now solid Odo were surgically altered to look like Klingons by Bashir. Worf was probably alter some so he wouldn't look like Worf son of Mogh. Odo exposed Martok as the changeling. Sisko was the first to fire on the Martok changeling but soon all the real Klingons joined right in on firing at the Martok changeling. I think that was turning point #1.
The second turning point, I believe was at the end of the season 5 episode 'By Inferno's Light'. A scene or 2 after Bashir, Garak, Worf, the female Romulan and the real Martok escaped from that Dominion prisoner of war camp. Sisko is on the upper level of the Promenade with the real Martok and Gowron. Gowron agreed to a continued Klingon presence on DS9 because of the Dominion. I think that was turning point #2.
I think after these 2 turning points the Klingons, especially Gowron, came to realize that the Federation and Star Fleet weren't the enemy...the Dominion was.
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Old October 29 2011, 04:01 PM   #15
Anwar
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Re: How come the Klingons "forgave" the Federation for Way of the Warr

The whole Klingon/Federation war was foreshadowed in DS9 in "Die is Cast" by the Lovok changeling: He said that with the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order gone, the only threats left were the Federation and Klingons.

What happens next? A Dominion-manipulated war between the Feds and Klingons.
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