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Old January 8 2012, 04:37 AM   #91
Agenda
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Anyone who participates in this crap should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old January 8 2012, 04:48 AM   #92
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Elaborate.
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Old January 8 2012, 05:19 AM   #93
Admiral_Young
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Re: Watchmen 2?

I'm guessing there won't be elaboration.
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Old January 8 2012, 05:26 AM   #94
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Feh, it was just a comic book. Great art though.
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Old January 8 2012, 05:32 AM   #95
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I'm guessing there won't be elaboration.
Sad, really.
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Old January 8 2012, 05:34 AM   #96
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Re: Watchmen 2?

^ Yet expected I'm afraid. I really don't understand this notion that "Watchmen" is untouchable. I get that it revolutionized comics and was critically acclaimed. It is an awesome story. It is one of my all time favourites...but if this happens and the talent rumoured to be part of it is true then I'm kind of interested myself.
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Old January 8 2012, 05:57 AM   #97
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Actually, you know what's sad? Any artist or writer who goes against the wishes of the original creator and participates in this project. I don't care if it's Darwyn Cooke or Rob Liefeld or Stan Lee himself. It's quite simply disrespectful. Just because they and DC have the legal right to do it doesn't mean it's morally right. And if you think it's morally right, I can't help you. Is that enough "elaboration"?
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Old January 8 2012, 06:06 AM   #98
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Didn't Moore wash his hands of Watchmen? If he doesn't care why should we? Hell, even the characters aren't that original. They're pastiches of the Charlton heroes.
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Old January 8 2012, 08:16 AM   #99
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Re: Watchmen 2?

I'm not going to feel ashamed of something that hopefully entertains me. This is the only criteria I consider when reading or watching or listening to something. What exactly has Moore stated about "Watchmen"? As Kang stated I kind of was under the impression that he is done with it. I know that he intended it to be a stand alone story and thought it would be unacceptable to film and that it was essentially a cinematic comic book.

If great care is taken to make the material entertaining and fun and in the same sort of tone that the original was created...then I don't see what the problem is. Are fans just overprotective of Watchmen's prestige or something?
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Old January 8 2012, 08:26 AM   #100
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Xmas in Antares wrote: View Post
Actually, you know what's sad? Any artist or writer who goes against the wishes of the original creator and participates in this project. I don't care if it's Darwyn Cooke or Rob Liefeld or Stan Lee himself. It's quite simply disrespectful. Just because they and DC have the legal right to do it doesn't mean it's morally right. And if you think it's morally right, I can't help you. Is that enough "elaboration"?
Conclusory statements don't pass muster.

OK, I'll quit being a dick. I actually sympathize to some degree--I like the idea that a work may be "untouchable" to the degree you hold Watchmen in. And if any work was to be untouchable, damned if Watchmen isn't the work. It's the closest example of "perfecting a medium" that I've seen. There are movies that are really good, novels that are really good, paintings that are really good, but nothing that I think approaches the ideal of the form like Watchmen does for comics.

And yet--it'll still be there, and shall always be so for as long as our civilization endures. They're not taking it away.

And it was made by men (and Jeannette Khan). Men who have profited from it; men who intelligently allocated their rights to it by contract.

There is no one whose rights are being violated. If no rights are violated, what morality is there to invoke? The immorality of crass commercialism? Of aesthetic blunder? Unsteady support for such vehemence, I think.

But, no, let's assume someone's moral rights to the integrity of their work are being violated. Very well.

Certainly no more so than when Alan Moore violated Mick Anglo's "rights" by turning his Marvel Family ripoff into brooding transhumans (one of whom was an irredeemable psychotic butcher): Miracleman.

Certainly no more than when Alan Moore violated J.M. Barrie's, Lewis Carrol's, and L. Frank Baum's "rights" by turning their heroines into the protagonists of a porno comic: Lost Girls.

And certainly no more so than when Alan Moore violated Steve Ditko's "rights" when he took his objectivist Charlton monsters and turned them into a crazy libertarian madman who smelt like feet, a fat ornithologist who had erectile dysfunction, and various other unpleasant reimaginings: Watchmen.

Now, maybe such a "right" to maintaining the artistic integrity of a work, in perpetuity, does indeed exist. What I want elaboration on is, why is it cool when Alan Moore does it to someone else's work, with enthusiasm, aplomb, and a discernible glee, but it's a fucking war crime when someone else does it to him?

Admiral Young wrote:
If great care is taken to make the material entertaining and fun and in the same sort of tone that the original was created...then I don't see what the problem is. Are fans just overprotective of Watchmen's prestige or something?
Watchmen Is Special. It has nothing to do with how corporate-owned fiction is created Because It's Watchmen.

The fact is, if one thinks that Watchmen 2 is a moral abomination--as an aesthetic abomination, I'm rather expecting it will be, regardless of the talent involved--they should not read any Marvel or DC comics.

Nor watch Star Trek. Nor the Transformers movies (shouldn't do that anyway, but there's another reason). Nor avail themselves of a great percentage of our society's fiction. Because that's how it's made: by standing upon the shoulders of giants, whether they like it or not.

And not just our society's. Where's all the hate for Virgil's Aeneid? Motherfucker resurrects Homer's franchise eight hundred years later? It's simply not morally right.
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Old January 8 2012, 01:08 PM   #101
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Xmas in Antares wrote: View Post
Actually, you know what's sad? Any artist or writer who goes against the wishes of the original creator and participates in this project. I don't care if it's Darwyn Cooke or Rob Liefeld or Stan Lee himself. It's quite simply disrespectful. Just because they and DC have the legal right to do it doesn't mean it's morally right. And if you think it's morally right, I can't help you. Is that enough "elaboration"?
The Simple Answer:

They are doing it for money.
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Old January 9 2012, 04:37 AM   #102
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Re: Watchmen 2?

I don't think Watchmen should be off limits, but I do think any attempt to do a sequel will fail. Only 3 of the "heroes" still exist, and 2 of them have changed their identities and seem unlikely to take up crimefighting again.
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Old January 9 2012, 05:25 AM   #103
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Well, if the sequel is about crimefighting, it will indeed fail. But there are bigger, more interesting issues that could be explored, I think.
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Old January 9 2012, 08:49 PM   #104
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Re: Watchmen 2?

It's not a sequel...but prequels.
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Old January 9 2012, 09:25 PM   #105
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Re: Watchmen 2?

AFEK ESLCAFE W wrote: View Post
Xmas in Antares wrote: View Post
Actually, you know what's sad? Any artist or writer who goes against the wishes of the original creator and participates in this project. I don't care if it's Darwyn Cooke or Rob Liefeld or Stan Lee himself. It's quite simply disrespectful. Just because they and DC have the legal right to do it doesn't mean it's morally right. And if you think it's morally right, I can't help you. Is that enough "elaboration"?
The Simple Answer:

They are doing it for money.
That's why they did the original Watchmen too.

It worked.
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