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Old March 14 2012, 07:06 PM   #271
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Watchmen 2?

trekkiebaggio wrote: View Post
I still don't really get how they got screwed over though. The contract said that if the book goes out of print the rights revert to Moore & Gibbons. But then it's up to DC if it goes out of print or not surely?
At least read this page of the interview. Was Moore naive? Probably. Was he lied to? Sounds like it.

"It's just business" doesn't mean it's okay to lie. It's clear from the way he relates the story that DC was selling him a "kinder, gentler" image, and he believed them. Graphic novels, as a format, didn't even exist at the time--he had no way to know that Watchmen would be so big a hit that DC would never let it go out of print. It's easy to pass judgment in hindsight, but people who are trying to get you to sign a contract will always play on your naivete and try to act like they're your best pals in the world--until you sign on the dotted line and they start using every trick they can to screw you.

Yes, obviously his take is very one-sided, but I find people blast him less for what he actually says and more for what they think he says, or what others say about him.
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Old March 14 2012, 07:24 PM   #272
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post

Yes, obviously his take is very one-sided, but I find people blast him less for what he actually says and more for what they think he says, or what others say about him.
And also let's consider: people keep ASKING him what he thinks about all this. What do you THINK he's going to say?

His position hasn't changed much over the years. And I have to quite admire him actually: they have offered him tons of cash, which he has turned down. Who else would do the same?

And also: I think he DOES have a point in regards to "something new." Clearly Before Watchmen is a corporate decision, not a creative one.
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Old March 14 2012, 07:40 PM   #273
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Re: Watchmen 2?

I don't see the complaint about the variant covers, since variant covers happen all the time now and are usually contained in the trade when it comes out. So buy the cover you want and if you want all of them, wait for the trade. Or just do what I do, and wait for the trade.
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Old March 14 2012, 08:12 PM   #274
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Re: Watchmen 2?

I know variant covers are here to stay, and they help the bottom line of these companies. But when you get multiple JLA covers, you know that's the whole she-bang: a Johns/Lee project is going to be lightweight anyways (and I say that as someone who enjoyed it). However, DC is trying to make the case that this Watchmen event was both inevitable and artistically driven, and they know there's some skepticism on that last matter. It would seem counter-productive here. I suspect it would have been a better financial decision to make certain this project looked respectful of the original, and not a cash-grab alone. The more variant covers, the more people who were thinking of staying away will stay away; and I doubt there's many out there who are excited enough by the project to buy all the covers.

In other words, if DC ran with "we thinks there's good creative reasons for this" instead of "OMG we're still losing market share to Marvel even though Superman is wearing his underwear inside now", they'd actually make more money long-run. I can't be the only one whose confidence is undermined by the overkill here. As Professor Zoom says above, this is a corporate decision which will need to be redeemed, if it can be, by the individual creators, rather than a proper alliance between creativity and the profit motive.

I'm only committing to the Cooke Minutemen at this point.
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Old March 14 2012, 10:14 PM   #275
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Watchmen was a dystopian mess with thoroughly unlikeable characters. And the movie was worse.

Now a sequel to the movie version of LXG...THAT I'd be all over!
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Old March 14 2012, 10:16 PM   #276
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Re: Watchmen 2?

^ Really?
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Old March 14 2012, 10:39 PM   #277
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Re: Watchmen 2?

A sequel to LXG, especially if it were based on the second volume (which was itself based on The War of the Worlds) would have been pretty awesome, five or six years ago. I'd love a good period adaptation of TWotW-- the Pendragon Pictures direct-to-DVD version is unwatchable -- and I'd have settled for an LXG sequel.
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Old March 14 2012, 10:41 PM   #278
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Re: Watchmen 2?

If Moore stuck to adapting the comic version instead of doing his own movie version of the team then it would be sweet...but IIRC, he purposely set out to do his own movie version. I hated LXG because of that. The comics (i haven't read any of the current stuff yet like the Century stuff) are awesome though.
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Old March 14 2012, 11:07 PM   #279
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
If Moore stuck to adapting the comic version instead of doing his own movie version of the team then it would be sweet...but IIRC, he purposely set out to do his own movie version. I hated LXG because of that. The comics (i haven't read any of the current stuff yet like the Century stuff) are awesome though.
Moore adapted the movie? He had nothing to do with the movie. What do you mean?
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Old March 15 2012, 12:50 AM   #280
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
If Moore stuck to adapting the comic version instead of doing his own movie version of the team then it would be sweet...but IIRC, he purposely set out to do his own movie version. I hated LXG because of that. The comics (i haven't read any of the current stuff yet like the Century stuff) are awesome though.
James Robinson (Starman, Justice League) wrote the script. Moore had nothing to do with the movie, which is why he took such offense to being deposed over "Cast of Characters" (a story that had been floating around Hollywood for a decade that brought together Victorian pulp characters to fight crime).

I had no problems with the changes the movie made to Moore's League. I didn't even mind the addition of Tom Sawyer (though he really should have been Quatermain's age, if not slightly older, since Huck Finn takes place about 1840). I thought the film captured the spirit of the comic.
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Old March 15 2012, 02:36 AM   #281
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
If Moore stuck to adapting the comic version instead of doing his own movie version of the team then it would be sweet...but IIRC, he purposely set out to do his own movie version. I hated LXG because of that. The comics (i haven't read any of the current stuff yet like the Century stuff) are awesome though.
I very much liked that they got rid of the cynical, deconstructionist and dystopian claptrap from the LXG comics and presented the film as a straightforward action/adventure period piece.

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I had no problems with the changes the movie made to Moore's League. I didn't even mind the addition of Tom Sawyer (though he really should have been Quatermain's age, if not slightly older, since Huck Finn takes place about 1840). I thought the film captured the spirit of the comic.
The director addresses that in the commentary track. There was a late 1800s Sawyer story published that made him eligible to be depicted as he was in the film.

and from the Wikki article on Sawyer:

Thomas "Tom" Sawyer is the title character of the Mark Twain novel The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (1876). He appears in three other novels by Twain: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (1884), Tom Sawyer Abroad (1894), and Tom Sawyer, Detective (1896).
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Old March 15 2012, 03:43 AM   #282
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Wow, how times change, when people defend huge corporations against the artists they screw over.
I know what you mean, any other issue and I'm all Occupy this or 99% that, but Moore just comes across as pathetic.

You know, sometimes I hear people complaining about their lot in life and they'll occasionally get to a point where they ask "Is it me?" And you have no other choice but to say, "yes, it's you."

I feel like that would be the proper response to Mr. Moore.

I just can't fathom the absolute hypocrisy of him using other people's characters and then complaining about the prequels being done.
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Old March 15 2012, 04:43 AM   #283
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Re: Watchmen 2?

milo bloom wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Wow, how times change, when people defend huge corporations against the artists they screw over.
I know what you mean, any other issue and I'm all Occupy this or 99% that, but Moore just comes across as pathetic.

You know, sometimes I hear people complaining about their lot in life and they'll occasionally get to a point where they ask "Is it me?" And you have no other choice but to say, "yes, it's you."

I feel like that would be the proper response to Mr. Moore.

I just can't fathom the absolute hypocrisy of him using other people's characters and then complaining about the prequels being done.
Funny how he seems to have a different set for rules for himself.
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Old March 15 2012, 02:53 PM   #284
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Re: Watchmen 2?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
trekkiebaggio wrote: View Post
I still don't really get how they got screwed over though. The contract said that if the book goes out of print the rights revert to Moore & Gibbons. But then it's up to DC if it goes out of print or not surely?
At least read this page of the interview. Was Moore naive? Probably. Was he lied to? Sounds like it.

"It's just business" doesn't mean it's okay to lie. It's clear from the way he relates the story that DC was selling him a "kinder, gentler" image, and he believed them. Graphic novels, as a format, didn't even exist at the time--he had no way to know that Watchmen would be so big a hit that DC would never let it go out of print. It's easy to pass judgment in hindsight, but people who are trying to get you to sign a contract will always play on your naivete and try to act like they're your best pals in the world--until you sign on the dotted line and they start using every trick they can to screw you.

Yes, obviously his take is very one-sided, but I find people blast him less for what he actually says and more for what they think he says, or what others say about him.
Ahhh okay thanks for the link. Sounds like he realises he didn't read the contract closely enough but like you say that's with hindsight and it was an unusual contract at the time.
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Old March 16 2012, 11:09 AM   #285
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Re: Watchmen 2?

I don't know why I thought Moore had anything to do with the film, I could have sworn that I read an LXG treatment from him years ago...
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