Talk of Bryan Singer's BSG project resurfaces

[Gep Malakai]

stonester1 wrote:

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That is a weird lens you view the world through, stj.

A statement that sums up every opinion he's ever held on anything, ever.

[stj]

stonester1 wrote:

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Or from the viewpoint of the humans who just lost their worlds and most of their military capability, then actually managed to overcome their enmity towards a race when some of the members managed to prove to them that there was a bit more to them than "DESTROY ALL HUMANS!" A viewpoint that was not unreasonable until then.

Of course the "human" viewpoint was unreasonable. (I had to put "human" in quotes because of the number of supposed characters who turned out not to be human at all.) In any competently written drama characters will have different viewpoints as is inevitable for different individuals. We cannot actually say that there was much variety in viewpoints in the new series, which stems directly from the terrible writing. In particular, there is an perfect uniformity as to the origins of the conflict: EVIL Cylons came out of nowhere and attacked us good folk. This is an absurdity that makes the show pure Wisconsin cheddar at its very core.

Of course the real issue is the lens with which one views such foolishness, particular when it's perpetrated on the screen with such jaw-dropping pomposity. There's nothing at all in the new series to take seriously, precisely because the Cylons are such stupid nonsense. Naturally you can't see something so painfully obvious if you look at the world and its people through a lens of bigotry and ignorance. (I much prefer my "weird" lens.) Only through that lens can the new series look like serious drama. The show says that although Cylons are people, they are still demonic, so much so that God himself (even if he doesn't like to be called that) will strike them down at one fell swoop.

Since most of humanity was in effect slain by God, the show also says that by and large humanity is awful, especially that human pretension called civilization. The misanthropy that some complain about is not just real, it's blatantly obvious. Objecting to it is a sign of good taste and shows a grasp of basic morality.

The people driveling to the contrary must be driven by a belief that there really are demonic creatures driven by a satanic religion who should be exterminated, and feel ennobled by be willing to accept that a handful of these monsters might be redeemed by loving us good folk and proving it by killing their fellows. Thus, for them, the new series really does address profound issues. Again, this is bigotry, about living people. Redbaiting me doesn't cover up the perverted pleasure in genocide openly indulged by the new series' fans.

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, stj, you and I must have watched different shows. I can't connect anything you're saying with the show I watched.

For example, Satan was never mentioned, as far as I recall.

stj wrote:

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demonic creatures driven by a satanic religion

[RandyS]

Ian Keldon wrote:

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Spare me...they faced plenty of challenges and setbacks, they just didn't spend entire episodes pissing and moaning about it, unlike NuGalactica.

People are tired of popular entertainments that are as mired in the muck as their real lives. We've just come out of a dark decade and are staring down the barrel of another one (at the rate we're going, anyways). That's grim and depressing enough without having to wallow in angst in our entertainments as well.

I completely agree.

But let's not forget that the younger generation mistakenly equate "angst" with "quality", as though it were some sort of Holy Grail, so, we're more likely to get more "dark and gritty" BS than we are anything else.

[The Stig]

Ian Keldon wrote:

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Spare me...they faced plenty of challenges and setbacks, they just didn't spend entire episodes pissing and moaning about it, unlike NuGalactica.

People are tired of popular entertainments that are as mired in the muck as their real lives. We've just come out of a dark decade and are staring down the barrel of another one (at the rate we're going, anyways). That's grim and depressing enough without having to wallow in angst in our entertainments as well.

What dross.

There is plenty of escapist-style fare on both film and television that bears little resemblance to reality, all the while co-existing with more grounded presentations. Your complaint is that you'd prefer your entertainment to be light and fluffy, which is all well and good, but do us a favour and stop pretending that you're some sort of mouthpiece for the majority.

[Neroon]

stj wrote:

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Of course the "human" viewpoint was unreasonable. (I had to put "human" in quotes because of the number of supposed characters who turned out not to be human at all.) In any competently written drama characters will have different viewpoints as is inevitable for different individuals. We cannot actually say that there was much variety in viewpoints in the new series, which stems directly from the terrible writing. In particular, there is an perfect uniformity as to the origins of the conflict: EVIL Cylons came out of nowhere and attacked us good folk. This is an absurdity that makes the show pure Wisconsin cheddar at its very core.

Of course the real issue is the lens with which one views such foolishness, particular when it's perpetrated on the screen with such jaw-dropping pomposity. There's nothing at all in the new series to take seriously, precisely because the Cylons are such stupid nonsense. Naturally you can't see something so painfully obvious if you look at the world and its people through a lens of bigotry and ignorance. (I much prefer my "weird" lens.) Only through that lens can the new series look like serious drama. The show says that although Cylons are people, they are still demonic, so much so that God himself (even if he doesn't like to be called that) will strike them down at one fell swoop.

Since most of humanity was in effect slain by God, the show also says that by and large humanity is awful, especially that human pretension called civilization. The misanthropy that some complain about is not just real, it's blatantly obvious. Objecting to it is a sign of good taste and shows a grasp of basic morality.

The people driveling to the contrary must be driven by a belief that there really are demonic creatures driven by a satanic religion who should be exterminated, and feel ennobled by be willing to accept that a handful of these monsters might be redeemed by loving us good folk and proving it by killing their fellows. Thus, for them, the new series really does address profound issues. Again, this is bigotry, about living people. Redbaiting me doesn't cover up the perverted pleasure in genocide openly indulged by the new series' fans.

Was that at all necessary, to go on like that just to flame fans of another show?

Infraction for flaming, comments to PM.

[Neroon]

I am closing this thread because of both sides' acting like spoiled children. Again. Sure there are different schools of thought and preferences, but there just seems to be no end to the caustic enmity between both camps. It leaves little room for even the "agree to disagree" viewpoint.

If you want to bring this subject up again, do your best to handle it with more decency and respect. Or at least get something to eat and take a nap first. How about if I re-open the thread tomorrow, after everyone has a chance to cool their jets for a bit?

ETA: thread re-opened

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Ian Keldon wrote:

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Only to jaded, cynical people.

I'm neither.

[Ian Keldon]

RandyS wrote:

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I completely agree.

But let's not forget that the younger generation mistakenly equate "angst" with "quality", as though it were some sort of Holy Grail, so, we're more likely to get more "dark and gritty" BS than we are anything else.

"Kids these days..."

And I thought the rap/hip-hop generation was bad...

The Stig wrote:

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What dross.

There is plenty of escapist-style fare on both film and television that bears little resemblance to reality, all the while co-existing with more grounded presentations. Your complaint is that you'd prefer your entertainment to be light and fluffy, which is all well and good, but do us a favour and stop pretending that you're some sort of mouthpiece for the majority.

There's a difference between weightier fare and the wallowing in the darkness nature of NuG's storytelling.

All I'm asking for (as are many many many others in my experience) is some "good" to go with the "bad".

Unrelentingly negative "entertainment" is a fad that needs to go the way of disco. People are sick of it.

My Name Is Legion wrote:

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I'm neither.

If you say so...based on what I've read of your posting in and around the board I'd say I pegged you dead on, but YMMV.

[Temis the Vorta]

I'd be happy to check out a more "traditional," cheesy variant on BSG and if it works well on its own merits, I wouldn't fault it for not being much like nuBSG.

I hope Robert Hewitt Wolfe's proposed "space cops" series survives the development process, complete with a cornball aspect that's a throwback to the starry-eyed days of TOS. I think there's an audience for that approach that is going hungry.

And if somebody wanted to come along with a dark, dystopian space opera series, I'd happily check that out, too.

Ideally, there would be a dozen space operas on TV right now, ranging from an angsty wallow that would give RDM nightmares to a light and fluffy romp that would give diabetes to Telletubbies, and all the iterations inbetween, so that we can pick and choose from one end of the spectrum or the other, or just watch the whole damn range.

[CorporalCaptain]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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I'd be happy to check out a more "traditional," cheesy variant on BSG and if it works well on its own merits, I wouldn't fault it for not being much like nuBSG.

Yep.

And if somebody wanted to come along with a dark, dystopian space opera series, I'd happily check that out, too.

Yep.

Ideally, there would be a dozen space operas on TV right now, ranging from an angsty wallow that would give RDM nightmares to a light and fluffy romp that would give diabetes to Telletubbies, and all the iterations inbetween, so that we can pick and choose from one end of the spectrum or the other, or just watch the whole damn range.

Yep.

Additionally, I don't see any reason in principle why one show can't have a whole range of tones all to itself.

[stonester1]

Gimme happy scifi, gimme sad/angry/depressed scifi. All I ask for is good stories.

And some sublety and layers to give the characters some "reality".

For me, RDM's BSG gave me that. The original...was much more hit or miss, but I'm still a fan and hold there is a reason it has not just fallen by the wayside.

It does not have to be an either/or proposition.

[milo bloom]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Ideally, there would be a dozen space operas on TV right now, ranging from an angsty wallow that would give RDM nightmares to a light and fluffy romp that would give diabetes to Telletubbies, and all the iterations inbetween, so that we can pick and choose from one end of the spectrum or the other, or just watch the whole damn range.

Can we make that the mission statement of this forum?

[Temis the Vorta]

milo bloom wrote:

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Can we make that the mission statement of this forum?

Why stop there, I think it should be on the front page of TrekBBS!

Additionally, I don't see any reason in principle why one show can't have a whole range of tones all to itself.

My first thought was that it would be too disjointed but my second thought was "Farscape," so yeah I'd love to see a show like that again someday.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The first table read of the script for Singer's movie: