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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 17 2012, 08:49 PM   #991
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Seven of Five wrote: View Post
I always find it a bit strange that Leeta was asked to be one of the temporary hosts. Hadn't she been in like one episode before this? Although I suppose that the station is on the edge of the known frontier, so it's entirely plausible that there's plenty of time for Jadzia and Leeta to become gal pals!
I do remember reading that the writers acknowledged that was something they pulled out of their behinds, but they needed another woman and the female characters are outnumbered, so they just went with it.
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Old February 17 2012, 08:53 PM   #992
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I vaguely remember something like that now that they mention it. I was just thinking about why they didn't use Keiko for that matter, but I suppose she was on Bajor at this point.

Lwaxana Troi? Don't hit me!
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Old February 17 2012, 08:56 PM   #993
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

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Lwaxana Troi? Don't hit me!
I wonder what would happen if an elder Betazoid was present when a Joined Trill performed zhian'tara? There'd be personalities flying everywhere! No one would have a clue who they were

Those of you who dislike Fascination and dislike Dax episodes...I present to you your nightmare. An episode of 'hilarity' in which underdeveloped Trill hosts bounce from person to person and everyone acts amusingly but dully out of character for 45 minutes!
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Old February 17 2012, 09:01 PM   #994
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I would have liked an episode where an old host accidentally takes control of Jadzia for the day.

With sexy results!
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Old February 17 2012, 09:26 PM   #995
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

That's every day after "Blood Oath," and it's Curzon. Don't like the results, though.
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Old February 17 2012, 09:34 PM   #996
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Avery Brooks was freakin' EPIC as Joran. So, so creepy. I heard he was even creepier on the dailies, and they had to ask him to tone it done, so one can only wonder what the first few takes were like! But for all those of you who were curious as to what Hannibal Lecter would sound like when crossed with a Catholic priest ... well, now you know ...

Other than that, I was kind of "meh" on the episode. It was fun to see the other actors get to play different roles. Quark playing a female was of course milked for humor, and the others did a serviceable job as well. I really liked Kira as the first host, he mannerisms were great, letting you know this was a completely different person without being hammy. I do think Leeta being part of it was kind of out of left field. I remember reading on Memory Alpha that the writers had planned before this to establish that there was a friendship between Jadzia and Leeta, but they never wrote those scenes, so we just had to sort of accept that they were appparently close enough for Jadzia to ask her to do this.

I thought the whole Kurzon was in love with Jadzia thing was kind of wierd. As others have pointed out, how would she not know that already, since she carries his memories? And how does that work once he's reintigrated into her pysche or whatever? I did enjoy the conversation between her and Odo at the end, although they didn't really revisit how the experience seemed to have bonded them after this.
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Old February 17 2012, 09:40 PM   #997
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

DS9 Gal AZ wrote: View Post
Quark playing a female was of course milked for humor.
Which might have been another lost opportunity, really. It would be nice if Quark learnt something from that. It wouldn't have to change his attitude overall, but they could have shown him being a little thoughtful or uncertain over the experience, rather than skipping over the implications. We all know the Ferengi sexism is played for laughs, as in "look how ridiculousy over-the-top sexist they are!" but they're also a serious culture and Quark is a serious character who's at his best when his desire to be "the best Ferengi he can be" conflicts with the fact that Ferengi aren't a very enlightened culture.

But I suppose the episode has other things to focus on.
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Old February 17 2012, 09:55 PM   #998
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I agree about Joran's portrayal. I think Brooks just used it as a reason to play nutso, and from the MU episodes he seems to really enjoy doing that. It did seem a little left field from the Joran we were introduced to in Equillibrium.

Though I thought the concept of the episode was cool, I didn't like the "I'm in love with you" twist at the end. I'm started to think that the writers/producers were certain that everyone who meets her must be head over heels in love with Jadzia.
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Old February 18 2012, 08:38 AM   #999
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I do not care for this episode. Rene Auberjonois saves it a little, but the rest of it I can do without.

There's really no reason for it other than for us to learn that Curzon was in love with Jadzia. The problems with that are numerous. As has been said, how the hell did she not know about this already if she carries all of Curzon's memories? And it really does seem like the writers want the audience to believe that every male Jadiza encounters instantly falls madly in love with her.

And, of course, there's the fact that Dax, just for the fun of it, uses Quark's well-known attraction to her to manipulate him into doing something she knows will humiliate him.

But, what I remember most about this episode is that it was here that my dislike for Jadiza finally came into focus for me. In short, I find her pompous, self-absorbed and not really sympathetic to other people's feelings. The fact that she now carries Curzon's love for her as part of her own personality explains why she's like that - she is, in effect, romantically in love with herself.

Okay, I promise not to bad mouth Dax for a while now.
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Old February 18 2012, 06:16 PM   #1000
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
And I guess Sisko's nervous system might be having trouble too, and only certain facets of the personality pattern are getting through - maybe Sisko subconsciously rejects hosting the remorseless killer parts, and so in turn "projects" them outward?
Now that deserves a commendation for original thinking.


The Adversary (****)

This was an unusual choice for a season finale, but I guess when the writers' original idea for the season finale (essentially Homefront) was nixed by Paramount they had to come up with something quick, and having a Changeling run rampant on the Defiant was as good an idea as any. Besides, they could use the season's leftover budget to finally add some new sets to the ship. In fact, this has been my favourite episode featuring the Defiant yet because it finally gives a real sense of the ship as a ship and not just a bridge set with adjacent bunk beds. We get to see engineering, the mess hall, larger corridors, and even our beloved Jefferies tubes.

I like that this episode knows what the audience is thinking then double bluffs us. When we learn that there's a saboteur onboard the Defiant the first person we're going to suspect is the guest actor, but it pretends that it's trying to trick us into believing Julian is the chief suspect so that when the obvious thing happens and the ambassador guy is the guilty party, we're surprised by the real revelation that he's a Changeling. Well, we would be if it didn't reveal that fact on the DVD description for the episode. The next most likely suspect for the Changeling to replace is Eddington because he's just a minor recurring character that has always been a bit shifty, so we get the scene where he's revealed as a Changeling only to be shocked to learn that he's not, Bashir was the Changeling. It's clever, I liked it. What's interesting is that this very first attempt at blood screenings for Changelings was an absolute failure and yet Starfleet insists on using it as a security measure in the future. Add to this the fact that "Martok" passed the test in the next episode and you have a perhaps unintended commentary about how excessive security against an insideous threat is a waste of time and resources. DS9 really was prescient.

What I don't like about the episode is the Tzenkethi. Who the hell are they? They don't even qualify as an alien of the week because they never even show up. If I was a Changeling infiltrator and I was tasked with stirring up trouble between the Alpha Quadrant races the last race I'd even think of starting a war with would be the bloody Tzenkethi. Why not use a race we had actually seen before like the Gorn, Tholians, or Talarians? It's hard to care about the potential for war between the Federation and a name. The Federation would probably steamroll them anyway. Other than that, the episode is well done. It's tense, it has a few good tricks up its sleeve, and it has a good final line to end the season.
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Old February 18 2012, 08:13 PM   #1001
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Re: "Facets," it showed the world that Nana Visitor's going to make an adorable little old lady some day.

The Tzenkathi? Maybe the Alpha Quadrant's running low on kitty litter.

What I don't get about "The Adversary" is that, if I'm remembering it right, Odo didn't murder the Changeling. They were fighting and the Bad Guy accidentally got fried. It certainly wasn't his intent to kill the guy, so for me it renders a big chunk of Odo's arc empty.

Second, how did the Founders find out that Odo "killed" the Changeling? Or did they just hear that he died and Odo was there, and put the worst possible spin on it.

I might be getting ahead of myself here, but by Linking, wouldn't they know that he didn't want to kill the guy?

The way it is, Odo's just being persecuted on a technicality.

To make it interesting, what if they had him consciously choose to kill the Changeling? Say, Kira's in danger, and the only way he can save her is to make a choice to kill the Changeling? Or he links with the Changeling, learns what he's going to do, and feels so angry (and horrified about who he himself really is) that he kills him?
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Old February 18 2012, 09:15 PM   #1002
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

The Dominion's not exactly big on flexibility. As far as they're concerned, a rule is a rule even if it's a stupid rule. It's like those people from TNG's "Justice" on steroids.
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Old February 18 2012, 09:16 PM   #1003
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

How did the Founders know Odo killed a Changeling? Easy:

"You're too late. We are everywhere."
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Old February 18 2012, 09:29 PM   #1004
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Heh, who's to say there was only one Changeling on Defiant at the time?

And I agree, the Founders wouldn't care whether or not Odo wanted the other Changeling dead. All that would matter was that Odo enabled it to occur.

But then, did we really think this would end any other way? It's not as though they could just stick the Changeling in the brig.
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Old February 18 2012, 10:56 PM   #1005
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Heh, who's to say there was only one Changeling on Defiant at the time?
Ooh good point! That would have been a more ominous ending too. Although my boring thought was that as we saw that Changelings were on Earth during Homefront/Paradise Lost, it would be easy for one to get access to Starfleet records.

I like this episode. I think the wirters did well with it considering their plans were changed by Paramount.

I sort of wished we could have had what the writers intended for season four. Don't get me wrong I love Way of the Warrior and Worf, and I loved that the Klingon/Federation conflict is a result of Dominion meddling. It all links up so well in season five, but I can't help but feel we were robbed of something that would have developed the Dominion in a different way.

It's hard to imagine what would have replaced season four though. It was a very consistent year, with lots of good episodes.
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