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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 21 2011, 03:25 AM   #76
RAMA
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I've been doing a re-watch of episodes from the 1st thru 4th seasons. The main reason is because my wife hasn't seen many eps from that period, though she enjoyed the other 3 seasons. It's been slow going...most of the episodes I remembered fondly haven't been as interesting or dynamic as I remembered, and she seems a little dis-interested. The pilot is still as good as I remembered, if not better. Past Prologue is a great, perfectly timed episode...it immediately dealt with with Kira's terrorist past when she was portrayed as a strong dissenter with current gov't policies. Captive Pursuit is still one of my top 10 episodes.
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Old October 21 2011, 03:38 AM   #77
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Past Prologue (***½)

From what I can tell, this episode was produced third but aired second, which was a good move for two reasons. Firstly, exploring the political realities of Bajor makes for a more satisfying follow-up to Emissary than a story about murdering a clone. Secondly, it gives us an opportunity to explore the most important character on the show after Sisko, Morn... I mean, Kira! Kira has to be the first main character on Star Trek that actively dislikes the Federation, and what a wonderful decision that was, because questioning the actions of the Federation is healthy and that was previously a viewpoint reserved for the villains. This episode does exactly what needs to be done in showing her conflicting loyalties, and how she comes to realise that some Bajorans are a bigger threat to Bajor than the big bad Federation.

The big problem with this episode is the complete lack of fallout from Sisko discovering the Celestial Temple. I'm pretty sure that if we found Allah hiding out in the Kuiper belt it would be an Earth-shaking event that people would be talking about months later, but there's not a whiff of that in this episode. And it's not just that the writers ignore the issue, it's that they address the wormhole frequently without any emphasis on the religious element of it. I can understand Tahna Los' reasoning for trying to collapse the entrance to the wormhole, and perhaps he doesn't care about the religious implications because he's not a religious guy, but it's absolute craziness that Kira doesn't address that issue once Tahna reveals his plan.

The thing this episode is probably most remembered for is the introduction of Garak. I wonder whether the writers had plans for him to actually be a spy working for the Cardassians or if it was always their intention that he was in exile (or, most likely, they had no idea themselves). I also wonder why Garak decided to spark up a friendship with Bashir. Did he think that Julian was young and naive enough to serve as a contact within the command staff? Did he see something special in Julian that he wanted to nurture and guide? Or did he just think that Julian might make an interesting dining companion? Was he really coming on to Bashir, or was he just playing games and trying to freak him out? I still don't know the answers to those questions, which is part of what makes Garak so awesome.

Form of... a rat: 2
Wormhole in Peril: 1
Sykonee's Counter: 4

Two thoughts come to mind: DS9 spent a lot of episodes dealing with the ramifications of the wormhole aliens and the religion sprouted and encouraged around them. Idon't feel slighted that this isn't focused on, I found the Kira storyline much more satisfying.

It's not uncommon for leaders of zealous religious organizations in politcal power, or fighting political power to be non-religious...Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden come to mind as two example at the opposite end of the spectrum using religious fervor in their favor despite being secular leaders.
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Old October 21 2011, 09:52 AM   #78
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
You know TheGodBen, every episode you review I'm watching!
I apologise in advance for reviewing If Wishes Were Horses.
Nah don't apologise, it's given me reason to watch the DS9 episodes again, all of them. I'm watching them in chronological order so it doesn't matter.
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Old October 21 2011, 03:46 PM   #79
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Just wanted to chime in and say YAY!
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Old October 21 2011, 05:00 PM   #80
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

RAMA wrote: View Post
DS9 spent a lot of episodes dealing with the ramifications of the wormhole aliens and the religion sprouted and encouraged around them. Idon't feel slighted that this isn't focused on, I found the Kira storyline much more satisfying.
I'm not saying that the episode needed to focus on the discovery of the Celestial Temple, but the fact that the wormhole is mentioned several times in the episode by Bajoran characters, but they don't mention the religious significance of it is very strange. The fact that a Bajoran came up with a plan that involved putting a massive bomb in the wormhole, and another Bajoran that's trying to stop him (and who we find out later is deeply spiritual) doesn't bring it up is beyond weird.

Take In Purgatory's Shadow as a counter-example. When Sisko plans to close of the wormhole, Kira immediately questions what would happen to the Prophets and Sisko assures her that the procedure would do them no harm. That's the way to do it, not to ignore it like Past Prologue did.


Babel (*½)

It appears that the novelty of watching DS9 again has worn off.

The episode begins with a sequence showing that O'Brien is overworked and under-appreciated, so he hatches a diabolical scheme to poison everyone on the station as a means of revenge. The episode claims it was an accident, but I have my suspicions. Soon, he starts speaking gibberish, which is par for the course for a Starfleet engineer, but this is apparently a different form of gibberish from normal and he's taken to Dr Bashir who finds out that O'Brien has a special aphasia virus, or something. Turns out that it was planted by a Bajoran doctor (proving that Hippocrates never visited Bajor) as a way of killing Cardassians during the occupation, thus allowing this episode to dodge the TNG-lite penalty.

If this was 1993 and I was watching DS9 for the first time, this episode would have fed into my fears as to the sort of episodes a station-based show would produce. Disease-of-the-week episodes have already been done by TOS and TNG, the only thing new about this story is that the disease makes people talk funny. At least the drunk disease in The Naked Time/Now had some sexy results, watching people speak gibberish for 45 minutes isn't that exciting, as several episode of TNG already proved. Making the disease fatal and adding a countdown timer to when people start dying doesn't make things more interesting, it actually makes things more conventional and boring. The sub-plot about the freighter captain trying to get away and accidentally overloading his engines was a much better way of putting the characters in peril.

There's not as much of the character stuff in this episode either. There's a nice moment where Sisko tries to comfort Jake even though Jake can't understand him. Kira does things in her own style, by kidnapping a guy and infecting him with a deadly illness. The stand-out moments were those between Quark and Odo, which may just be the saving grace of a number of season 1 episodes.

Form of... a Dining Cart: 4
(How did Odo rotate those wheels? )
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Old October 21 2011, 08:52 PM   #81
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I'm not saying that the episode needed to focus on the discovery of the Celestial Temple, but the fact that the wormhole is mentioned several times in the episode by Bajoran characters, but they don't mention the religious significance of it is very strange. The fact that a Bajoran came up with a plan that involved putting a massive bomb in the wormhole, and another Bajoran that's trying to stop him (and who we find out later is deeply spiritual) doesn't bring it up is beyond weird.

Take In Purgatory's Shadow as a counter-example. When Sisko plans to close of the wormhole, Kira immediately questions what would happen to the Prophets and Sisko assures her that the procedure would do them no harm. That's the way to do it, not to ignore it like Past Prologue did.
I think Kira became steadily more spiritual as the series progressed. I mean when she was fighting the Cardassians in the occupation was there were really any time for her to sit down, and pray, meditate, or engage in spiritual matters? I don't think so. She discovered her pagh, after the occupation, but I think faith in the Prophets came later.
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Old October 21 2011, 09:14 PM   #82
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

And it's funny how at the end of the series, Kira ends up reasoning against Sisko about weather following the Prophets is always the best decision.
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Old October 22 2011, 05:38 AM   #83
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Babel (*½)
And so the downward slum of mid Season One begins. Just keeping saying to yourself - it get much better, it gets much better.

The stand-out moments were those between Quark and Odo, which may just be the saving grace of a number of season 1 episodes.
I'd say these two are going to be the saving grace for a number of DS9's more lackluster episodes, not just in Season One.
Form of... a Dining Cart: 4 (How did Odo rotate those wheels? )
How do Changlings alter their mass or exist as things like fog, fire or light? These things are best left unexamined.
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Old October 22 2011, 02:24 PM   #84
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Ew, Babel. This episode would have been more at home during TNG's first or second season. The dreadful starship/station disease plot has been done before ad infinitum by this point, and the virus had boring symptoms. There's a race against time, but we know everything will be alright by the end. Meh.

I agree that Odo and Quark salvage the show somewhat. I also liked Sisko trying to keep Jake calm - there was a hint at emotion in that scene. Kira being a bit gung-ho in getting the scientist guy at the end was also fun.
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Old October 22 2011, 03:48 PM   #85
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Quite liking your reviews so far.

S1 had a lot of boring episodes. Babel had me laughing half the time at the gibberish.
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Old October 22 2011, 06:23 PM   #86
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Severed Fingers wrote: View Post
Ew, Babel. This episode would have been more at home during TNG's first or second season.
Woah, I wouldn't go that far.
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Old October 22 2011, 08:10 PM   #87
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

It was entertaining enough to not be horrible.
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Old October 22 2011, 08:59 PM   #88
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Past Prologue is quite good. I especially like the first meeting between Garak and Bashir. Is it just me or does Garak break the fourth wall and look directly at the camera and give a sly smile? At any rate it's a great introduction to a great character.

I can't believe how bad Odo's make-up looks in A Man Alone. You would think that being a major character that his make-up would be well refined before he was ever put in front of a camera.

Babel is the generic disease plot that it seems to be a rite of passage for every sci fi television series. It's OK but far from great. Odo and Quark make it watchable.
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Old October 22 2011, 09:35 PM   #89
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Lord Vader wrote: View Post
I fully agree that "Emissary" is probably the best of all the Trek pilots.
Same here. It's the only one that, in retrospect, really sets up a lot of what made the series interesting (as opposed to VOY's, which wasn't much followed through on, and ENT's, which didn't set up anything good - TOS was nonexistent and the less said about TNG's, the better).

Yall have fun with the rewatch but I'm ducking out till Battle Lines, which is the only good one-off of the first season, and then out again till Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets. As far as I'm concerned, there are only four episodes worth watching in S1.

Unless you count Move Along Home for weirdness factor. It's probably great to watch high.
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Old October 22 2011, 09:59 PM   #90
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Temis the Bleeding Aorta wrote: View Post
Unless you count Move Along Home for weirdness factor. It's probably great to watch high.
Kinda like watching paint dry, but getting high off the fumes.
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