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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 21 2011, 07:03 AM   #301
Admiral Shran
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Cardassian Yellow Graphs! I like.

I'm pretty amazed at how low Behr scored this season, but I can only assume he'll rise through the ranks as the show continues.

As for The Experiment - I like it, keep it up. It just needed to have the introduction of the baseball in it.

Oh, and - are you not doing the "What I Would Have Done Differently" for DS9?
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Old November 21 2011, 07:08 AM   #302
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Cardassian Yellow Graphs! I like.

I'm pretty amazed at how low Behr scored this season, but I can only assume he'll rise through the ranks as the show continues.
Eh... as I recall, Behr was responsible for quite a few of the absolute clunkers in the later seasons (not to mention a number of TNG Ferengi episodes). He's a great producer, but the 'comedy' scripts he writes often leaves much to be desired.
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Old November 21 2011, 09:06 AM   #303
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Dude I'm a mathematician and for one thing your graphs need there x- and y-axes labelled. Otherwise the numbers become a little meaningless. Next with histograms what matters is not the curve (sine curve? ) but the spread of frequencies and how they are distributed.

The histogram can be divided in two partitions; the left part being the poor and average episodes, which are slightly more numerous than the right part being the good and excellent episodes.

The bottom line: the spread is skewed to the average episodes, and the median (middle; half of the cumulative frequency 19) would be somewhere around the ranking 4.

Conclusion: from the histogram, and taking the median, the first season of DS9 is somewhat below average.
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Old November 21 2011, 09:45 AM   #304
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I've been shaken to the core with the yellow graphs! They're very different!

I remember Ira Steven Behr had his hand in a lot of the Ferengi episodes, so I think his ultimate score may not be as good as some of the other writers. He also teamed up with Rober Hewitt Wolfe and then Hans Beimler after Wolfe left, meaning that his solo scripts just sort of vanished like a Dominion fleet. Will he be represented on the graph like the Reeves-Stevens?

And Peter Allan Fields was a top notch DS9 writer, or at least what I remember was. It's a shame he wasn't there throughout.
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Old November 21 2011, 03:26 PM   #305
Admiral Shran
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Ln X wrote: View Post
Dude I'm a mathematician and for one thing your graphs need there x- and y-axes labelled. Otherwise the numbers become a little meaningless. Next with histograms what matters is not the curve (sine curve? ) but the spread of frequencies and how they are distributed.

The histogram can be divided in two partitions; the left part being the poor and average episodes, which are slightly more numerous than the right part being the good and excellent episodes.

The bottom line: the spread is skewed to the average episodes, and the median (middle; half of the cumulative frequency 19) would be somewhere around the ranking 4.

Conclusion: from the histogram, and taking the median, the first season of DS9 is somewhat below average.
As a history major in college, I can tell you that that all just went right over my head.
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Old November 21 2011, 03:54 PM   #306
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
Dude I'm a mathematician and for one thing your graphs need there x- and y-axes labelled. Otherwise the numbers become a little meaningless. Next with histograms what matters is not the curve (sine curve? ) but the spread of frequencies and how they are distributed.

The histogram can be divided in two partitions; the left part being the poor and average episodes, which are slightly more numerous than the right part being the good and excellent episodes.

The bottom line: the spread is skewed to the average episodes, and the median (middle; half of the cumulative frequency 19) would be somewhere around the ranking 4.

Conclusion: from the histogram, and taking the median, the first season of DS9 is somewhat below average.
As a history major in college, I can tell you that that all just went right over my head.
I too speak not the tongue of the mathematician. Speak simpleton, Ln X .
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Old November 21 2011, 05:28 PM   #307
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I agree with your review, GodBen.

I also liked the tribute video.
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Old November 21 2011, 06:37 PM   #308
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
As for The Experiment - I like it, keep it up. It just needed to have the introduction of the baseball in it.
I was going to put the baseball in, but then I forgot. I only remembered to add Nog and Opaka's death in at the last moment.

Oh, and - are you not doing the "What I Would Have Done Differently" for DS9?
I considered it, but I don't think I'd have much to say. I did that for Voyager and Enterprise because I had issues with the structures of those shows and the direction they went (except ENT season 4), whereas with DS9 I'm fairly happy with the direction the show took. All I'd be doing is complaining that the show didn't focus on Bajor enough in early years, or pointing out plot inconsistencies and dropped concepts. I felt like I'd be repeating myself if I did that.

Ln X wrote: View Post
Dude I'm a mathematician and for one thing your graphs need there x- and y-axes labelled. Otherwise the numbers become a little meaningless.
Oh, this is more embarrassing for me than the time Mike Sussman showed up after I made all those jokes about him. Yes, I should have labelled the axes, but that ruins the aesthetics of the graph, and it's not like as if people actually look at them, they're just there to make me look smart to the simpletons, like history majors. ()

The histogram can be divided in two partitions; the left part being the poor and average episodes, which are slightly more numerous than the right part being the good and excellent episodes.

The bottom line: the spread is skewed to the average episodes, and the median (middle; half of the cumulative frequency 19) would be somewhere around the ranking 4.

Conclusion: from the histogram, and taking the median, the first season of DS9 is somewhat below average.
Wouldn't the median be 5? There's 19 values, the median would be the 10th, which would be 5. Or is there some more complicated method of getting the median that I don't know about?

Also, would the average not be more important than the median in this situation? Yes, there's more bad episodes than good, but the level of badness in the bad episodes isn't as much as the goodness in the good episodes. Or something like that.

Seven of Five wrote: View Post
I remember Ira Steven Behr had his hand in a lot of the Ferengi episodes, so I think his ultimate score may not be as good as some of the other writers. He also teamed up with Rober Hewitt Wolfe and then Hans Beimler after Wolfe left, meaning that his solo scripts just sort of vanished like a Dominion fleet. Will he be represented on the graph like the Reeves-Stevens?
Nah, Behr gets judged as an individual because he did write a few episodes on his own, the only ones that will share a score are Thompson and Weddle as they always wrote together, from what I remember. Like I said, it's not fair or accurate, it's just a little fun.

As for Behr's score, while I imagine it will be above average overall, some of the "comedy" episodes will hold him back. He'll probably get a good score in the end, but Moore, Echevarria, and Fields don't have that sort of baggage and will likely top him. In fact, just glancing at Field's list of future episodes, he's in a very strong position to "win" this thing.
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Old November 21 2011, 06:54 PM   #309
Admiral Shran
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
it's not like as if people actually look at them, they're just there to make me look smart to the simpletons, like history majors. ()
Oh, I see how it is around here.
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Old November 21 2011, 08:49 PM   #310
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Well, everyone has their strengths. Mathematicians are good at labelling graphs. History majors are great in bed. I'm good at offending people and getting into awkward situations by saying stupid things. There's only one winner in that group.


And it was me, because I got to sleep with a history major. Fuck yeah!
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Old November 21 2011, 10:01 PM   #311
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Nah, Behr gets judged as an individual because he did write a few episodes on his own, the only ones that will share a score are Thompson and Weddle as they always wrote together, from what I remember. Like I said, it's not fair or accurate, it's just a little fun.
Just some random info: credits with "&" mean the writers worked as a team. Credits with "and" mean the second person added/modified the script of the previous person.

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
As for Behr's score, while I imagine it will be above average overall, some of the "comedy" episodes will hold him back.
Plus he shares writing credit on Let He Who Is Without Sin...
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Old November 21 2011, 10:57 PM   #312
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Well, everyone has their strengths. Mathematicians are good at labelling graphs. History majors are great in bed. I'm good at offending people and getting into awkward situations by saying stupid things. There's only one winner in that group.
First I've heard of it, but it bodes well for me. And I've got a foot in both camps, so I get the graphs too.

Also, the return of the graphs. They are only things I follow this thread for!

(well, and the awesome reviews, but lets not miss out a chance at hyperbole, eh?)
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Old November 21 2011, 11:26 PM   #313
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Wow, graphs and everything! My impression of Cardassian Yellow is that it's a bit more orangey but overall, I comment your effort. When does S2 commence?
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Old November 21 2011, 11:38 PM   #314
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Wow, graphs and everything!
TheGodBen's chief weapon is detailed graphs...detailed graphs and a great sense of humour...His two weapons are detailed graphs and a great sense of humour...and pictures of Scott Bakula. His three weapons are detailed graphs and a great sense of humour and pictures of Scott Bakula...and an almost fanatical love of Deep Space Nine. Amongst his weapons are....let's just say there are many reasons why we love his review threads.

But graphs are one of the major selling points.
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Old November 22 2011, 04:19 AM   #315
TheGodBen
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
Just some random info: credits with "&" mean the writers worked as a team. Credits with "and" mean the second person added/modified the script of the previous person.
That's interesting, I didn't know that, but it does explain why I've seen some credits that use both, which seemed weird to me.

Really, judging the writers based off their credits is pretty much impossible because it's impossible to know who really wrote what. In the Pale Moonlight's script is credited to Michael Taylor, but it was Ron Moore that wrote the final draft, and Taylor described Moore's version as darker and more profound than his. But still, Moore's not getting any points from me for that episode even though it's possible he wrote some of my favourite scenes in the series, and Taylor's not getting any points from it either because he's only credited with four episodes of DS9, thus falling one short of my artificially imposed five-episode rule.

When you look at it like that, you realise just how pointless judging the writers like this is. But at the same time, it makes things a bit more fun as it adds a little competition to the graphs. Watching those lines move up and down the graph is like watching a horse-race... maybe. I've never watched a horse-race so how should I know?

Eyes wrote: View Post
First I've heard of it, but it bodes well for me.
Well... sadly, the sample size that I used to come to that result was 1, which is 1,066 samples short of what I would have needed for the usual 3% margin or error, and it's certainly a far smaller sample size than I would have liked. Also, I have no data on what male history majors are are like in bed, and my scientific curiosity doesn't extend in that direction.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Wow, graphs and everything! My impression of Cardassian Yellow is that it's a bit more orangey but overall, I comment your effort. When does S2 commence?
It is a bit orangey, but when I made it more yellow the whole thing looked wrong. It was either this colour or what I came to know as "baby poo green", so I went with this colour.

And season 2 should start tomorrow.
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