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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 4 2011, 10:19 PM   #211
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Had rough time keeping on track...wound up shifting to season 7 Partly because my wife wanted to see Ezri Dax episodes and partly because the season 1 eps were more boring than I'd remembered...oh well.

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Old November 4 2011, 10:47 PM   #212
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I enjoy progress a lot, it has a lot to go for it. Then again, I am a evil land use planner who had to go on to people property and take junk off and so on. So I feel Kira's pain.

(Should throw in a sexist pig comment that I would feel other things, but I am not going to)
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Old November 5 2011, 12:02 AM   #213
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I'm partial to people forced off their land by eminent domain, particularly for sketchy reasons, so count me in the "anti" group on Progress.

I've never seen Community (I guess it's a TV show?), but I'd love to see not one, but several photoshops from The Wire.
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Old November 5 2011, 12:12 AM   #214
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

It's all in the game, players.

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Old November 5 2011, 03:51 AM   #215
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

RE: Storyteller

Is it not possible that there are some really, really, really, really backwoods Bajorans? Like, their version of Bushmen or New Guinea tribes? Or hell, even Amish?
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Old November 5 2011, 04:43 AM   #216
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
EDIT: Oh, and it was about time we got another Kira-centric episode. One of the show's best characters - if not the best - and who I often thought could do with a little more First Season attention than she got.
I don't know that Kira can really be said to be underused in season one, though most of her episodes are at the beginning and the end of the season... Past Prologue, Progress, Duet. And she's prominent in Battle Lines and In the Hands of the Prophets as well.

Actually what stands out to me is how much better, generally speaking, the Kira/Bajor episodes are than anything else on the show at this point, with the exception of Quark/Odo banter, which is sprinkled throughout.

That's probably why the writers went with a similarly themed mini-arc for the beginning of season two.
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Old November 5 2011, 06:11 AM   #217
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I like Progress but it has one huge problem for me. That is, I honestly don't know what to make of the character of Mullibok. If the writers' intention was to make me dislike him than "mission accomplished" because I can't stand the guy. However, while watching the episode, I honestly get the impression that we are, in fact, supposed to like him - that we're meant to see him as a cranky, curmudgeonly guy we can recognize. I don't see that at all. There's a fine line between being a loveable curmudgeon (Archie Bunker or Al Bundy) and downright being a prick. Mullibok crosses that line, IMHO. So, in the end, I'm left confused as whether to root for him or Kira.

Now, that being said, the episode offers up some stuff that I could really sink my teeth into (in a good way). Given my political leanings, the idea of a guy being forcibly thrown out of his home which he built with own two hands for reasons which don't affect him by his own government is something I could get passionate about. However, from a storytelling standpoint, it all depends on my liking Mullibok, and I don't.

The ultimate saving grace here that rises the episode to "above average" is it's development of Kira, as others have already pointed out. God bless TPTB for putting one of our heroes in a no-win situation and letting it be. I might not agree with forcing a man out of his home, but it does make for good storytelling.
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Old November 5 2011, 06:55 AM   #218
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
I like Progress but it has one huge problem for me. That is, I honestly don't know what to make of the character of Mullibok. If the writers' intention was to make me dislike him than "mission accomplished" because I can't stand the guy. However, while watching the episode, I honestly get the impression that we are, in fact, supposed to like him - that we're meant to see him as a cranky, curmudgeonly guy we can recognize. I don't see that at all. There's a fine line between being a loveable curmudgeon (Archie Bunker or Al Bundy) and downright being a prick. Mullibok crosses that line, IMHO. So, in the end, I'm left confused as whether to root for him or Kira.

Now, that being said, the episode offers up some stuff that I could really sink my teeth into (in a good way). Given my political leanings, the idea of a guy being forcibly thrown out of his home which he built with own two hands for reasons which don't affect him by his own government is something I could get passionate about. However, from a storytelling standpoint, it all depends on my liking Mullibok, and I don't.

The ultimate saving grace here that rises the episode to "above average" is it's development of Kira, as others have already pointed out. God bless TPTB for putting one of our heroes in a no-win situation and letting it be. I might not agree with forcing a man out of his home, but it does make for good storytelling.
I think that's the whole point of Mullibok. His situation is one where we instinctively want to sympathize with, to want to see some way for Kira to find the third option. Since there wasn't going to be one, if they'd gone and made him completely likeable and sympathetic, we'd see Kira as the bad guy in the end, and that's not a place that they were ready to send one of the stars of the show at this point. So by making him a prick, he loses some of the sympathy that the audience feels towards him because of his situation and is more willing to see Kira's side.
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Old November 5 2011, 07:33 AM   #219
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

That's understandable. But I still think they went overboard with making him a jerk. If it had been toned down to the point where he was a likeable curmudgeon like Archie Bunker or Al Bundy, the episode would work much better for me. He would be likeable some of the time, allowing us to want Kira to find that third option. However, he'd also be unlikeable some of the time, allowing us to somewhat forgive Kira for burning down his house and evicting him.

As it stands, I don't like him any of the time and that's the problem. I should feel at least some sympathy for the man (as I said, a man getting kicked out of his own house should illicit some tender feelings in me, especially when it's his own government that's doing it to him). Instead, a large part of me is happy when Kira torches all his belongings and kicks his ass off to Bajor.

Now, take Bunker and Bundy - they're both sexist, bigoted, superficial scumbags. But they both have redeeming qualities. For example, they are both utterly devoted to their families and will willingly walk through fire for them. I remember one episode of All in the Family where Archie, despite all his troubles with Meathead, doesn't even bat an eye when he needs help paying some medical bills - Meathead is family and so Archie supports and helps him without a second thought. And all through Married with Children, Al is constantly coming to his family's rescue and defending their honor, even though they all treat each other like dirt. Mullibok needed some qualities like that.
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Old November 5 2011, 02:49 PM   #220
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Brian Keith took a dislike to Nana Visitor, so maybe that resentment crept into the performance somewhat...
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Old November 5 2011, 04:36 PM   #221
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Severed Fingers wrote: View Post
EDIT: The pic is brilliant! I forgot that DS9 and Community did a very special episode crossover.
Miles and Julian in the morning!

BlueStuff wrote: View Post
Nice photoshop, TheGodBen. Any chance of a The Wire one in the near future?
Maybe for a certain season 2 episode. You know the one I'm talking about. Rivals.
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Old November 5 2011, 06:44 PM   #222
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Troy and Abed as O'Brien and Bashir is just perfect.
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Old November 5 2011, 09:09 PM   #223
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
The problem with this episode is really more of a technical one. Destroying the ecosystem of an M-class world seems like an awfully high price to pay just to heat a couple of hundred thousand homes. For that sort of sacrifice you'd expect much greater returns, perhaps even enough energy to power half of Bajor.
That may be all it's used for now, with an eye on expansion?

Honestly, I'm surprised that the Bajorans even considered the process. Regardless of the waste, does nobody remember what happened to Praxis?
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Old November 5 2011, 09:48 PM   #224
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
I'm partial to people forced off their land by eminent domain, particularly for sketchy reasons, so count me in the "anti" group on Progress.

I've never seen Community (I guess it's a TV show?), but I'd love to see not one, but several photoshops from The Wire.
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Old November 5 2011, 11:03 PM   #225
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote:
BlueStuff wrote: View Post
Nice photoshop, TheGodBen. Any chance of a The Wire one in the near future?
Maybe for a certain season 2 episode. You know the one I'm talking about. Rivals.
Aaaaaaaah! I see what you did there!
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