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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 1 2011, 01:35 AM   #166
Ln X
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
He'll remove his stalk.
Awesome man, laughed my head off. I take it all back, people do have funny bones!
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Old November 1 2011, 04:58 AM   #167
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
\

One noticeable problem with this episode when rewatching it is how out of character Rom is. I suppose you could make the argument that Rom evolved over time due to his interactions with Starfleet types, but it still seems like a stretch that Rom would be willing to kill Quark when such an integral part of his character later on is how important family is to him. \
I totally buy the Rom thing, I think back to Necessary Evil when Rom was upset about Quark but at the same time was excited about inheriting the bar. Maybe that's why Rom is always so nervous he's always so conflicted.
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Old November 1 2011, 09:15 AM   #168
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
[Sidding] and Garret Wang are in the same boat there.
Whoa whoa whoa, let's not say things we can't take back here!
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Old November 1 2011, 10:27 AM   #169
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Oh I totally forgot about the Jake and Nog storyline. Though I was dealing with a broken freezer last night so was a bit tired.

That should have been the episode really, I love those guys! I agree that Jake is far and away a more interesting character than Wesley. Crusher was an ill-conceived character from the get-go. He is super smart, saves the ship, the grown-ups around him don't listen to him... Ready to vomit now!

Jake is trying to help his friend inspite of Rom and Sisko's misgivings about their respective species is far more interesting and down to earth.

EDIT - Deep Fruit Nine?

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Last edited by Seven of Five; November 1 2011 at 10:45 AM.
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Old November 1 2011, 11:55 AM   #170
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Will Fruit Space Nine have an annual Watermelon Must Suffer episode where Leo Gallagher comes aboard the station and smashes him with a mallet?
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Old November 1 2011, 01:11 PM   #171
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Will Fruit Space Nine have an annual Watermelon Must Suffer episode where Leo Gallagher comes aboard the station and smashes him with a mallet?


And for the simple phrase "Watermelon Must Suffer".
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Old November 1 2011, 04:18 PM   #172
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
But maybe people don't have any funny bones...
I resent that accusation, so here's an image from a passing thought I had; Fruit Space Nine. It's a show about various fruits that live and work on a space station in the 24th century.

That does it. I want to spend a least a few hours living inside your head.

Honorable mention to Admiral Shran for Watermelon Must Suffer.
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Old November 1 2011, 07:44 PM   #173
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Will Fruit Space Nine have an annual Watermelon Must Suffer episode where Leo Gallagher comes aboard the station and smashes him with a mallet?
And in a very special episode, David Letterman will throw him of a 5-story building. Letterman will be played by a pineapple.

Shatnertage wrote: View Post
That does it. I want to spend a least a few hours living inside your head.
It's possible, but you've got to strike the right balance between LSD and crystal meth. And there will be consequences, such as staying up until 4am thinking about plot-lines based around fruit.


Vortex (***½)

When I bought the DVDs back in 2004, Vortex was one of only a handful of episodes I hadn't seen in their entirety, and it stood out quite prominently, partly because it's above average for a season 1 episode, but mainly for how well it clicks with what we learn of the Changelings later in the series. Their persecution, how they went into hiding, even their name are all introduced in this episode. Sure, in the end it's all dismissed as folklore, but that folklore must have come from somewhere. At the time I didn't know about all the back-room stuff and how DS9's writers made everything up as they went along, and I almost believed that this was intentional foreshadowing of what was to come. Now I know that it wasn't, but I'm still impressed that DS9's writers took elements from a largely forgotten episode in season 1 and made it a key part of the show.

As a story, it's pretty interesting, but not much to write home about. It focuses on the two key elements of Odo's character, his urge for justice and his desire to learn about his people, and it puts those two things into conflict. Luckily for Odo, he doesn't have to choose between the two as the writers find a way for him to go with Croden without compromising his ethics. It may seem a bit neat and tidy that Odo just happened to be passing the so-called home of the Changelings on his way to Croden's homeworld, but it's still reasonably well handled.

There's two issues with the episode. Firstly, Odo gets knocked out with a rock. How did that happen? The other is the ending where Odo decides to let Croden go. It makes sense if Croden's homeworld is ruled by a totalitarian regime (possibly even as part of the Dominion) and Croden was a freedom fighter, but there's still a question mark around that issue and the fact that Croden did murder that Miradorn. It's like as if the episode got to the 55 minute mark and realised it had to wrap things up quickly, so it threw together a feel-good ending even though it doesn't make complete sense. Still, it's an enjoyable episode overall.

Form of... a glass: 6
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Old November 1 2011, 10:08 PM   #174
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Vortex is probably the best season 1 episode that isn't the pilot and doesn't focus on Kira and the Bajoran situation.

It really fleshes out Odo's character, and it feels like it fits into the big picture of the show as a whole, even though a lot of that probably wasn't intentional at the time.

I guess Captive Pursuit would also be in the running, though that's more of an alien-of-the-week type episode.

Last edited by flemm; November 1 2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old November 1 2011, 10:15 PM   #175
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

If you thought Rom's characterization was off in "The Nagus", what about that episode ("Babel", I think?) when a key plot point is that Rom is an idiot who can't fix anything? (Or so Odo says.)
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Old November 2 2011, 12:12 AM   #176
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Rom was a very Ferengi Ferengi at first. Perhaps it's fair to say that in The Nagus he was in character in terms of his season one persona, but by later seasons, he's almost a different person. I sort of agree that the later-seasons Rom doesn't seem to jive properly with season one Rom, but he at least had some good devlopment that made him different to the other Ferengi. It's a shame maybe that the transistion wasn't a bit smoother?

Vortex is a very interesting episode. As some of you have said already now, it's a good setup episode for the changelings, especially since it was never intended as such. The DS9 writers (and later Ron Moore and his staff on BSG) were particularly adept at picking up strands from previous episodes and turning them into gold. One of the best aspects of the whole show.

And sure, Odo gets knocked out with a rock. Just one of those early season oddities. Almost like Rom, you could say.
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Old November 2 2011, 12:08 PM   #177
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

With Rom you could argue that he's just doing his best to act like a "traditional" Ferengi in season one. Then, as the series progresses, he becomes more comfortable in his own skin. Of course, the truth is - the writers just took the character in a different direction and didn't bother trying to match it up with his early outings.

Vortex is definitely one of Season One's high points. I don't think it's the best, but it's up there.

There's a lot more substance here than I remember from my last rewatch - Emissary, Past Prologue, Captive Pursuit and now Vortex are all quality episodes. And of course, the end of the season offers even more. Hmmm.... maybe Season One isn't as bad as I thought. It not like TNG's first season, thankfully.
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Old November 2 2011, 09:44 PM   #178
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Lindley wrote: View Post
If you thought Rom's characterization was off in "The Nagus", what about that episode ("Babel", I think?) when a key plot point is that Rom is an idiot who can't fix anything? (Or so Odo says.)
I meant to mention that at the time but I forgot. I don't think the writers had much of a handle on any of the recurring characters at this point, they barely even had a handle on some of the regulars, so it's hard to explain some of these things. I'm guessing that Odo just assumed that Rom was an idiot because he acts like an idiot and doesn't realise that he's actually a talented engineer.


Battle Lines (****)

I was about half-way through this episode, right in the middle of Shel-la's big speech about how war is different when you can't die, when I realised his voice was familiar. A quick wiki-search on my phone confirmed my suspicion; he's Jonathan Banks! AKA Mike from Breaking Bad! He's one of the top 3 badasses on that show, which is saying a lot as half the cast of Breaking Bad are badasses. This episode earns extra points for that. Wouldn't it have been awesome if the leader of the nol-Ennis had been Bryan Cranston or Dean Norris? The episode would have earned 5 stars for that alone. Also, the Ennis should have sustained themselves by eating blue crystals...

Maybe I should talk about DS9 and not BrBa? Fine.

Sisko, Kira, Bashir and Kai Redshirt find themselves in a teenage boy's fantasy; a never-ending game of team deathmatch. The only problem is that the respawn lag sucks. Oh, and you have to suffer through painful deaths for all eternity. Overall, the episode is good, better than I remember it. Some say, including the show's writers (according to MA), that it's about the futility of war, which it isn't really, it's about how war causes us to demonise our enemy, which makes it harder for peace to be achieved. But there's some ray of hope, if you're lucky then a renowned peacemaker may come crashing out of the sky to help you with your problems. The episode may be a little heavy-handed with its message, but it has a good heart and some nice character moments. Plus, Jonathan Banks.

Problems? Well, there was that whole bit where O'Brien was all, like, "Yo dawg, I hear you like <tech>, so I <tech>ed your <tech> so you can <tech> while you <tech>." But my main problem remains the thing that I've brought up several times in the past; Kai Opaka should not have been written off the show this way. It was, ultimately, a good idea to kill her off and replace her with someone that would cause more conflict, but this is only the second time that we see Opaka and she ended up leaving the show in a planet-of-the-week story. If she was going to leave the show then it should have been in a Bajor episode, or we should at least have had an episode focusing on her relationship with Bajorans before offing her. Getting rid of Opaka like this is a sign of what little regard the writers have for Bajor right now and how they instead choose to tell stories about random alien races that we'll never meet again.

Runabouts Lost: 1


So long USS Yangtzee Kiang, you'll be missed. (Not really.)
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Old November 2 2011, 11:15 PM   #179
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Lt. Distorted Humor says - Stay on the Rio Grand...
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Old November 2 2011, 11:36 PM   #180
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I had thought I read somewhere that TPTB weren't exactly thrilled with the performance of the actress playing Opaka and this was how they chose to deal with it.

Maybe Opaka's departure deserved more fanfare, but OTOH it kind of raises the stakes for the series when they ditch a major character in a "non-event" episode. There's also the "realistic death" angle...not everyone gets to die in a way that matters on a galactic scale.
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