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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 27 2012, 02:25 PM   #1576
Sykonee
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Not sure why the Defiant being the first (and for a while only) ship to break through is so implausible. It's a small, highly-maneuverable ship. Plus, it's tough. Makes sense it'd have the highest chances out of all the Starfleet ships. (and you bet the Klingons would stick behind for the glorious battle!)
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Old October 27 2012, 11:24 PM   #1577
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I always would have preferred it if Sisko had gone into the wormhole specifically with the intention of asking the Prophets to help. I mean, we had that scene in "Favour the Bold" where he reads through the propheices looking for "loopholes." That would have been the perfect set-up for him realising he can ask them for help.

Instead he goes in with the intention of using his one little ship to fight off more than a thousand Dominion ships, because that makes sense, and is initially annoyed when the Prophets interfere. It would have made a lot more sense if getting the Prophets to interfere had been his plan all along.

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Old October 29 2012, 01:51 AM   #1578
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

OhGodBen wrote: View Post
... Any suggestions? Because if you guys don't come up with anything then I'll just come up with something stupid like F-Change.)
How about "Ol' Buttercups"
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Old October 29 2012, 03:16 PM   #1579
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Seven of Five wrote: View Post
I understand Brooks had concerns with the potentially bad taste that Star Trek's only black captain leaving his black wife and baby behind could leave. I just think that in a show like Star Trek, those kinds of things wouldn't (or shouldn't) be an issue with the audience anyway.
Maybe Brooks was right that it wouldn't have played well in the real world, just look at how some fans overreacted to... that incident involving Janeway in the novels. And some fans are still pissed about Kirk's death in Generations and want him brought back electro-magically. But I guess this is a discussion that should be left until I reach the finale, five years from now after I take some extended breaks.

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How about "Ol' Buttercups"
I like the sound of it, but I must ask why.



You Are Cordially Invited (**½)

Ten o'clock in the morning,
And we're talking in the closet.
I tell Kira that I'm sorry,
And she says "Think nothing of it."
I say "I was so stupid."
She says "Yes you were,
But Rom wasn't executed,
And nobody got hurt."

But the way the closet light hits her eyes,
It makes me want to break down and cry.
Except I don't have any tear ducts,
So I keep looking like I don't give a fuck.

She smiles at me coyly,
And says "Let's move on from this."
Something deep down inside me,
Makes me want to lean in for a kiss.
Then we hear a noise in the bedroom,
And our eyes turn towards the door.
Worf and Dax enterd the bedroom,
Now Kira and I are done for.
Worf and Dax are fighting,
About something that happened at the party.
And in the closet's low lighting,
I accidentally knock over a Barbie.

The sound causes Worf to prick up his ears.
Somebody's in the room with him, he fears.
"What the unholy fuck was that?!"
He lifts his shirt and pulls out his gat.

I'm so scared I nearly shit myself,
Except I don't have a real ass.
But unfortunately Kira does herself,
And she lets out some panicky gas.
Outside in the bedroom,
Worf is looking under the bed,
Kira and I fear our doom,
We're completely losing our heads.

Worf goes to the bathroom,
He looks in the shower,
Kira and I are entombed,
We can do nothing but cower.
Worf looks under the blankets.
He checks in the dresser.
He looks at the closet.
I morph up a beretta.
He walks up to the closet.
He goes up to the closet.
Now he's at the closet.
Now he's opening the closet.
...closet.
...closet.

If the closet scene had been written like that, nobody would be complaining that it was a lame cop-out that concluded a vital character arc off-screen. No, we'd all be praising Ron Moore's lyrical genius instead, and crediting him for the invention of hip-hopera. Sadly, that didn't happen. Odo's betrayal then redemption was a fine idea and I didn't punish Favor the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels for using it, but I did punish Behind the Lines for going too far in portraying Odo's sinister shift, and I'm punishing this episode for failing to follow up on it properly.

Otherwise, the episode was a fine light-hearted story that brings some levity back to the show after all the doom and gloom of the occupation arc. After everything the characters have been though they deserve a chance to relax, and so does the audience. That's one of the key elements of DS9, the show did explore darker themes than the rest of the franchise but it was never full-on depressing. Sometimes the show went too far with these fluffy episodes in the final two seasons, but coming right after the occupation arc and the major victory in SoA, this is a good time for a festive episode. The jokes may not be the most original you've ever heard, but they're well executed and leave you with a pleasant feeling that this family of characters are back together again.
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Old October 29 2012, 06:43 PM   #1580
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Yeah he missed a trick there. Definite five star episode!
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Old October 30 2012, 12:26 AM   #1581
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

OhGodBen wrote: View Post
This theory of mine is actually based on the original ending for the show where Sisko was going to be trapped in the wormhole, but they changed it to the current version where Sisko said he would return because of Avery Brooks' concerns. My opinion is that Sisko said he would return because he was determined to do so but didn't realise that he couldn't. A lot of people disagree with me about that, but I think that Sisko being trapped in the wormhole makes more thematic sense than an ending where he can return at any time, so that's what I go with. And since I don't read the novels, I'm free to do so.
I agree with your theory, I mean with Sisko living in the Celestial Temple, I bet the Prophets will have a whole bunch of stuff to teach him. He would probably only return with the Prophet's blessing or if they send him out on another Emissary mission...
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Old October 31 2012, 03:00 PM   #1582
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Resurrection (**)

When I said in the previous review that I'm glad this family of characters is back together again, what I meant is that I'm glad they're back together so they can work on kicking the Dominion's ass back to the Gamma Quadrant, not that I'm glad they're back together so that we can get a season 3 episode. Because that's what Resurrection should have been, a late season 3/early season 4 episode. An episode dealing with Kira's feelings of loss over Bareil doesn't work in season 6, and it especially doesn't work as the first non-arc episode of the season. Poor timing all around.

I really liked Crossover, largely because of the Kira/μKira dynamic, as well as the fact that the episode had a fantastically eerie atmosphere. I was considerably less enthralled by Through the Looking Glass and Shattered Mirror because of their focus on comic-book action and not the more interesting consequences of travelling to a mirror universe. To Resurrection's credit, it actually does focus on the latter, μBareil's existential crisis from learning about the life of Vedek Bareil is something that I can easily imagining happening to a lot of us if we learned about our mirror selves, especially if they happened to be a better person than we are. The episode also finally brings Kira and μKira back together, although their interactions here are not nearly as interesting as those in Crossover were.

The main problem with this episode is that it has no soul to it and the result is a very predicable episode. From the moment μBareil showed up, it was almost inevitable that he and Kira would end up in bed together, and it was pretty obvious from the moment that μKira showed up that μBareil would betray her because of his growing conscience. Nothing truly unexpected happened, it's a very by-the-numbers story about redemption that ends without any consequences and can be easily forgotten. After the excitement and the daring of the occupation arc, this comes across as an extremely safe episode. It's not a bad episode, but it's unbecoming of the new DS9.
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Old October 31 2012, 07:33 PM   #1583
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

OhGodBen wrote: View Post
After the excitement and the daring of the occupation arc, this comes across as an extremely safe episode. It's not a bad episode, but it's unbecoming of the new DS9.
They weren't playing safe, they simply ran out of ideas!
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Old October 31 2012, 08:14 PM   #1584
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Resurrection is very boring, and I was a fan of Bareil. I agree that it might have worked better sooner after our Bareil died, but there are only so many ways to polish a turd.
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Old October 31 2012, 08:30 PM   #1585
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Resurrection is definatly one of the weaker MU stories.
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Old October 31 2012, 08:40 PM   #1586
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Yeah those episodes really had diminishing returns as the series went on. Emporer's New Cloak was terrible.
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Old October 31 2012, 09:15 PM   #1587
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I really liked Resurrection, and I thought it was one of the better MU episodes, placing and all. Crossover was the one I couldn't take and like the least. Just goes to show that opinions vary.
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Old November 1 2012, 01:24 AM   #1588
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Spook/Hoorah! Admirer wrote: View Post
I really liked Resurrection, and I thought it was one of the better MU episodes, placing and all. Crossover was the one I couldn't take and like the least. Just goes to show that opinions vary.
Oh...NO, the accepted opinion is that the First Mirror episode was the best, and they steadily got worse, each outing, you are not allowed to hold a nerd card, and have a different opinion I think I do like Crossover best, but, I don't go in "proper" order for the rest of them

Yea, I posted the other day, that my friend who loves TOS, would be savaged on that Forum, because he has the "Wrong opinion" on a lot of episodes. Hates fan Favorites, and loves some of the bashed episodes the best.
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Old November 1 2012, 06:12 AM   #1589
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Spook/Hoorah! Admirer wrote: View Post
I really liked Resurrection, and I thought it was one of the better MU episodes, placing and all. Crossover was the one I couldn't take and like the least. Just goes to show that opinions vary.
Oh...NO, the accepted opinion is that the First Mirror episode was the best, and they steadily got worse, each outing, you are not allowed to hold a nerd card, and have a different opinion I think I do like Crossover best, but, I don't go in "proper" order for the rest of them

Yea, I posted the other day, that my friend who loves TOS, would be savaged on that Forum, because he has the "Wrong opinion" on a lot of episodes. Hates fan Favorites, and loves some of the bashed episodes the best.
Well, at least I wasn't looking to be given a nerd card. I'll just march to the beat of my own drum, and if it's sometimes in sync with the majority of fans and sometimes not, then that's fine with me.

I think my favorite MU episode was the one where Jake's "mother" dies to save him.
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Old November 1 2012, 06:23 AM   #1590
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I consider "Crossover" the best of the DS9 MU episodes, but consider "Looking Glass" and "Shattered Mirror" quite good as well.

After that things get a bit dicey.
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