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Old February 20 2012, 08:13 PM   #961
sojourner
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

CDC guy did not confirm it for people that died of non-zombie injuries. We are still waiting to find out in that regards.
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Old February 20 2012, 08:34 PM   #962
Temis the Vorta
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Ryan wrote: View Post
The fact Shane still wants to be in a relationship with Lori really is the best evidence he's batshit crazy. That woman is horrible. Just absolutely horrible


There's a lot of off-kilter behavior among Our Heroes lately, which I will be generous and attribute to stress from enduring one traumatic situation after another and not conveeeenient writing to generate artificial drama and get the plot wrangled where the writers want it to go.

Lori's joy-ride, Shane's bullheaded insistence on "winning back" Olive Oyl, Darryl's ranting (I would expect him to have enough self-insight to know why he's isolating himself and just calmly tell Carol to give him some time to get over Sophia's death), Glenn angsting over being a coward because he was worried about Maggie and then doing a 180 and saying he was only thinking about himself, and Lori playing Lady Macbeth and trying to set Rick against Shane (I got why she did it, but that scene was shot weirdly, to make her look sinister...?)

Carol and Andrea win the Sensible Characters of the Week award. Shane, you moron, listen to Andrea! Nobody's going to follow you, regardless of how right you are about everything, if you insist on acting like a caveman!!!

Oh well. I'm convinced that Shane's only right by accident anyway, and his luck isn't going to hold out forever. He's too driven by emotions and hormones to be anything close to a decent leader for the group. At this point, I think Carol and Andrea should team up to run the gang, and let Darryl join their Triumverate of Common Sense when he finally crawls back out of his shell.
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Old February 20 2012, 08:38 PM   #963
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

the G-man wrote: View Post
Correct. Think of it like Rabies: There would still be isolated outbreaks here and there. However, since people would know how to deal with them, casualties would be limited and the outbreaks would be quickly confined.

And I almost hate to bring up AIDS (both because of the political implications and because of Herschel's implications) but in our lifetimes we've seen how medical providers and first responders can adopt to a potential pandemic and people adjust to that: everyone now wears rubber gloves, there are special disposal methods for medical waste, condoms are more openly discussed, etc.

No doubt a post zombie world would be harsher but there is already precedence throughout history for people to adapt behaviors to pandemics without the world coming to an end.
Neither of those examples are anything close to the zombie virus. Not even the horrors of the Black Plague approach the levels of how awful it is. It has a 100% infection rate, is often nearly instantaneous, the victims don't just fall to the ground and die but become bloodthirsty, mindless psychopaths that want to eat you alive, and it spreads like wildfire as a result. Even a tiny bite or scratch seems to be enough to do the job.

It can't be quarantined. It'll never go away. Anyone and everyone who dies turns into a monster, no matter the circumstances of their death (sans getting shot in the head or something similar, which is a pretty damn rare way to die). Refraining from sex won't save you from it. A few shots in the stomach won't cure you.

The only way to survive in such a world is to be paranoid and alert 100% of the time. Which is impossible to do. Even if you shoot everyone in the head when they die, zombies will still crop up. Constantly. And forever. With no hope in sight. Ever. Even when highly intelligent and educated medical practitioners were alive and functioning in relative safety -- including the very same ones who came up with the virus in the first place -- were unable to create any kind of cure for it. And all those smart, trained, and equipped individuals are likely dead. So even that's beyond hope for these people.

And worse, the larger the society, the less chance they'd have to survive for all those very reasons. Isolated groups would be the only likely means of surviving for any length of time, and they would slowly die off one by one. You know, kind of like Rick's group is.

Sorry, but no, they would have no hope for a normal society.. Any type of society that could counter all of the issues would be one that is nothing like what these people are familiar with. And it would likely be brutal and cold beyond description. "Shooting people in the head when they die" would be the most simplistic, minimalist trait of such a society.

And if you honestly think otherwise, you're clearly not thinking things through.
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Old February 20 2012, 08:43 PM   #964
Temis the Vorta
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Were they shot in the head? pretty sure the fat one died pretty slowly for a head shot.
I thought Rick finished them off with headshots, which implies to me that he's aware everyone reanimates.
I'm pretty sure those were the final words of the CDC guy, which is why Rick hasn't told anyone what he said yet. If they knew, there'd be no hope for the future.
Ysee, that makes no sense. Everyone dies eventually. All that would change is that humanity would need to institute new customs for handling the dead. When someone dies, destroying the brain must always be part of the burial process.

Eventually, humanity would simply learn to incorporate this tradition into their customs. Humans have long had to deal with chronic illnesses in their midst. Burial customs have incorporated ways of preventing the transmission of illness from corpses in the past (which is why corpses aren't allowed to rot in the street and must be buried or burned).

And once society has rebuilt to a certain extent, then the virus that is causing the zombie illness can be hunted down and eradicated like smallpox. There's no reason for this to constitute "no hope." It's not fundamentally different from how humanity has needed to cope with other illnesses throughout our history.

If that turns out to be the Big Secret, then I'll have to side with the bashers regarding the quality of this show's writing.

Then again, Rick's no doctor or historian. Maybe he lacks the context to understand that humans have faced similar perils in the past. But there's still the issue of why he would keep it a secret.

The minute someone reanimates without having been bit by a zombie, cat's out of the bag anyway, and that's likely to happen given the sketchy medical resources and everyone being armed to the teeth and likely to accidentally shoot someone. Andrea already almost killed Darryl by accident.

It's only a matter of time before someone dies that way for real. Is Rick really going to risk it happening while he's not around to give a warning?
The only way to survive in such a world is to be paranoid and alert 100% of the time. Which is impossible to do.
As I said in a previous post, noting how similar this show's scenario is to how humans lived for almost all of our 200,000 or so years of existence as a species, it is definitely possible to do, or else our ancestors would have been gobbled up by predators and we wouldn't be around now to be discussing such things.

Don't sell the human race short.
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Old February 20 2012, 08:46 PM   #965
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Tom wrote: View Post
Enterprise is Great wrote: View Post
Rick definitely shot the fat dude in the head even after he was down from the first shots. I don't remember if he did that to the other guy though.

That was gross when the guy got his face bitten off. The walker just chomped down on his nose and ripped it off. Ewwww. I liked how the flesh was peeling off the walker's face as he tried to get Lori though the windshield. Nice attention to detail.
Rick shot the first guy in the head thus only needed one shot, then shot tony twice in the body and walked up to him and shot him in the head so he would not re-animate it was all very obvious. Can't believe some people dont know that in this thread, once in the head and you stay dead! lol
To be fair, it's a fast scene, I had to go back with the DVR to catch everything.
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Old February 20 2012, 08:55 PM   #966
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
There's a lot of off-kilter behavior among Our Heroes lately....Darryl's ranting (I would expect him to have enough self-insight to know why he's isolating himself and just calmly tell Carol to give him some time to get over Sophia's death)....
That's the one that actually makes the most sense to me when you consider that Daryl was originally a hot-headed redneck who spent his whole life being either neglected or abused. The guy was just starting to turn his attitude around, in no small part because of his sense of responsibility towards Sofia and Carol and then he finds out the one time he tried to do the right thing he failed. I could easily see someone like him backsliding and not being able to think clearly--or articulate his feelings.

And in the case of Lori, to a certain extent I'm willing to blame hormones, but only so far. And, let's face it: we only think we know Lori. We think she's the "good wife" because that is how we're set up to think of her. However, we know her and Rick were having problems before the plague and we know she didn't waste very much time before taking up with his best friend. Who's to say that Lori hasn't always been erratic and manipulative. SOME people are in real life, after all.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The only way to survive in such a world is to be paranoid and alert 100% of the time. Which is impossible to do.
As I said in a previous post, noting how similar this show's scenario is to how humans lived for almost all of our 200,000 or so years of existence as a species, it is definitely possible to do, or else our ancestors would have been gobbled up by predators and we wouldn't be around now to be discussing such things.

Don't sell the human race short.

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Old February 20 2012, 08:56 PM   #967
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post

If that turns out to be the Big Secret, then I'll have to side with the bashers regarding the quality of this show's writing.
You'll have to blame it on the comic's writing.
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Old February 20 2012, 09:27 PM   #968
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Yes - it did make Lori seem manipulative, but I have no doubt that Shane is ready to off Rick at the earliest possible moment. Shane's cheese has slid off his cracker, and I would be calling her a idiot for not trying to get rid of Shane.

Andrea is just another hothead mess. Her little talk with Shane proves that she does not have the sense that God gave a gnat. The man is turning into a gun toting psycho and she is ready for the ride.

I think Glenn's waffling had to do more with him being unsure of his motives. He had never froze before and I think that rattled him.
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Old February 20 2012, 10:14 PM   #969
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I'm really not buying the 'everyone' has the virus theory. Too many dead bodies laying around that havn't animated. Rick shot fatty-pee-boy in the head because he wasn't there to arrest anyone. And he didn't want some wounded guy sneaking up on him. Or maybe it's already become habit. Since they were planning on leaving right away a walker could have stumbled across the barely alive body and infected it.

I love the analogy of Lori and Lady Macbeth. I think her whole motivation there was that Shane was right. She does love him. I'm not sure why she is struggling so hard to maintain this perfect front for a marriage that was already in trouble. Maybe she is trying to hold on to a simpler past.

As to everyone else's wierd behaviour I just chalk that all up to ptsd. They've lost a lot and had to adapt to even more in the last couple months.
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Old February 20 2012, 10:31 PM   #970
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Supposedly Daryl's behavior is going to have a big time pay off in the storyline, or so sayeth the grapevine.
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Old February 20 2012, 11:07 PM   #971
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

the G-man wrote: View Post
And, let's face it: we only think we know Lori. We think she's the "good wife" because that is how we're set up to think of her.
If Lori is a good wife I'd really hate to see a bad one.
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Old February 20 2012, 11:30 PM   #972
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

I loved Herschel telling off Shane. He doesn't seem to be able to bully him like he does Dale.

The only person whose actions I thought were out of character was Lori. Going off alone and leaving her kid were two things I wouldn't expect her to do; although given her hormonal state and her growing fear of Shane, I suppose it could be justified. But the thing is, the whole joyride sequence doesn't seem to have added much to the story. She went, wrecked a car and got brought back by Shane. If it was just so they could have Shane lie to her then it's kind of lame, because that was one of the more sensible things he's done.

I think Daryl is being written perfectly. And I did notice that he was with the gang at the end, ready to go look for the guys.
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Old February 21 2012, 06:48 AM   #973
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Ysee, that makes no sense. Everyone dies eventually. All that would change is that humanity would need to institute new customs for handling the dead. When someone dies, destroying the brain must always be part of the burial process.
This would be swell if people had the courtesy of dying in a convenient manner in the presence of others. Rather than in isolation and at random. Which, you know, is pretty damn common. The world would have to find a cure for heart attacks, aneurysms, suicide, car crashes, slipping on a bar of soap, falling down, poisoning, and all the myriad other means by which people die when they're not in a hospital bed being attended by a fleet of doctors and nurses.

And, as previously mentioned, everyone -- everyone -- on the entire planet will have be alert 100% of the time. If even a single person slips up, it could spell disaster for the entire community. Guards, in particular, are so well known for always being alert. They never slack off or even end up taking a nap, allowing for a rogue zombie to 'sneak' up and take a bite before they can get a shot off.

Which takes us to the next big problem. Everyone -- everyone, children included -- will have to be willing and able to commit not only murder but suicide at the drop of the hat. No one would be able to get bitten on the arm and wrap it up so their buddies don't learn about it, in the delusional hope that they won't turn. Nope. If you do get bitten or even scratched by a zombie, you have to be willing to put your pistol to your skull and pull the trigger. Which, obviously, everyone is going to do.

And worse, you have to trust that everyone else is going to be alert 100% and that they will commit suicide for the better of society. Which no one will on all three accounts.

Sorry, but no. Society can never recover from what we're seeing the Walking Dead unless a guaranteed cure can be found. And then it would take several generations before it even comes close to what it is today.
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Old February 21 2012, 07:25 AM   #974
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

You don't need 100% alertness to avoid an apocalypse level outbreak if you have an educated society. A post zombie society would obviously have much safer guards in place, much more draconian than our post 9/11 world. In that respect, a zombie outbreak is much more like a terrorist outbreak than a viral one in how it would be handled and guarded against. Hospitals/nursing homes would be more like prisons. accident scenes might be met with an armed response. Aunt Abby who lives alone and hasn't called in 2 weeks may receive a visit by armed police officers to check up on her after being prompted by concerned relatives.

The impossible thing to think is that society is just going give up at the "futility" of a post zombie world. It may face more outbreaks, but as corrections are made and lessons learned the outbreaks would get smaller and smaller. You under estimate the human will to live.

You should try reading Max Brooke's Zombie Survival Guide. It actually is a pretty good example of how society would change post zombie.
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Old February 21 2012, 08:03 AM   #975
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

Santeria, you're forgetting that a few zombies are not dangerous, their heads will be blow off almost immediately. That's why almost all zombie fiction skips the outbreak and goes from "What a beautiful day!" to "OMG, zombies are everywhere, run for your life!" almost immediately.

Even if someone slips in the shower and shuffles into the living room, how is that dangerous! No one will get bitten trying to help the zombie because they have no idea what's going on. No one will panic and do osmething stupid, those are the people who survived the apocalypse, they know how to behave. The people born after the apocalypse won't have a problem either, they lived with potential zombie attacks their entire life, every 10 year old kid would be capable of shooting a zombie in the head, they'd probably habe their own little weapons designed for children's hands. They will have learned that if someone turns they're no longer human and won't consider it murder. Mum's already gone, of with the beast's head.

Other rules would be seperate rooms for everyone that are locked from the inside. No zombie will be able to get in and if you die in your sleep and reanimate you won't get out. Will there be people who try to hide a bite? Yes, probably a few, but if everybody knows the symptoms, they will force them at gunpoint to get naked for the zombie bite inspection.
You don't even need guards, just fences, locked doors and secured windows for every house, flat or floor. Zombies aren't smart, they'll get stuck quickly and you will shoot them on your way to work. If no one is surprised by the dead reanimating, the whole thing isn't such a big deal. I'd be more afraid of someone sneezing at me and giving me a vicious strain of the flu.
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