The Walking Dead Season 2 Discussion *Spoilers*

[Mark_Nguyen]

Indeed. I'd only be worried about Carl or the other girl growing like Atlanta weeds in that time.

I'm sure that they'll build some natural breaks into the story to allow for the passage of time. Through eight episodes, we've passed through, what - a couple weeks since Rick woke up? And maybe three months since the apocalypse started?

My wife and I observed that this show has yet to actually introduce clearly BAD people. With the arguable exception of Merle (who's more just an asshole than an actual baddie), everyone we've met so far are not really evil or a villainous type. They're all just survivors, not power-mad, greedy, or subject to a variety of bad-guy stereotypes as most zombie movies have given us. I find this pretty refreshing - pretty much anyone who would be the typical early victims early on in a zombie apocalypse are already dead. There are no cheerleaders, no jocks, no corporate bigwigs, no soldiers. They're all neural chow.

All we have left are the ordinary people, and as Rick said early on, they're all just white or dark meat. I know that in the comics some villains are eventually introduced, but so far I'm loving that the only theing they're doing so far is trying to survive. Something like spending 3+ episodes stuck on a highway close to an infected town while ont he way to a place they hope WILL be their salvation would never be done in a zombie movie. It's great.

Mark

[Temis the Vorta]

Maybe Sophia will be lost for a while so they can substitute a new actress next season and we won't notice? As for Carl, the actor seems on the small side for a 12 year old, so maybe he's not going to grow up to be more than Michael J. Fox sized, and that could cover things adequately.

My wife and I observed that this show has yet to actually introduce clearly BAD people. With the arguable exception of Merle (who's more just an asshole than an actual baddie), everyone we've met so far are not really evil or a villainous type. They're all just survivors, not power-mad, greedy, or subject to a variety of bad-guy stereotypes as most zombie movies have given us. I find this pretty refreshing - pretty much anyone who would be the typical early victims early on in a zombie apocalypse are already dead. There are no cheerleaders, no jocks, no corporate bigwigs, no soldiers. They're all neural chow.

Yeah, I don't think we need any cornball villains on this show.

And that reminds me, did anyone see the History Channels' Zombies: A Living History? It made the same point - lone-wolf Rambo types won't be as likely to survive a zombie apocalypse than people who are good at forming social bonds and sharing resources - and also delved into zombie lore around the world, real world antecedents to zombie fears (actual history on the History Channel!!!), current events, groups like Zombie Squad that are actually doing some good spreading knowledge of disaster survival tactics, and offered some interesting tips on fighting zombies (leave the samurai sword at home, pick up a tire iron instead). And the ubiquitous Max Brooks got a lot of screen time.

No mention of crossbows as a great zombie fighting weapon, though. Well other than that, it was very well done.

[Kestrel]

Mark_Nguyen wrote:

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I know that in the comics some villains are eventually introduced, but so far I'm loving that the only theing they're doing so far is trying to survive.

Well, if they stick with the comics...

holy shit they're going to meet some evil people. The Governor being the big one, and he's incredibly vicious and yet charismatic enough to get a whole town to follow him as their savior. On a lesser but still evil note, if they introduce the prisoners there's one in particular that's fucking deranged. They probably won't show him though - decapitating little girls with a knife is probably too far for even cable.

[sojourner]

^Do ever watch Law and Order? They would have no problem doing what you describe in the spoiler. It'll just take place off screen.

[Lookingglassman]

Did I miss something? In last weeks episode the black guy mentioned the guy he left on the roof in the first episode, "cutting off his own hand to escape". I dont recall this guy reappearing on any episodes after he was chained to the roof. Did he show up with a missing hand? If so what happened to him?

[Kestrel]

sojourner wrote:

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^Do ever watch Law and Order? They would have no problem doing what you describe in the spoiler. It'll just take place off screen.

Well... except this took place on-screen. Well, okay... not the event itself, but the aftermatch in full gory detail as a full-page panel

with the heads looking right at the reader

. Perhaps not the most chilling moment, but definitely up there and one of the most unexpected.

[Locutus of Bored]

Lookingglassman wrote:

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Did I miss something? In last weeks episode the black guy mentioned the guy he left on the roof in the first episode, "cutting off his own hand to escape". I dont recall this guy reappearing on any episodes after he was chained to the roof. Did he show up with a missing hand? If so what happened to him?

Merle the racist psychopath drug-dealing ex-military ex-con biker appeared in the second episode Guts, and briefly in the third episode Tell it to the Frogs. He cut off his hand with a dull hacksaw to escape the roof (it couldn't cut through the handcuffs or the pipe). When the group, including Merle's brother Daryl, returned to the roof to rescue him, they found his severed hand, burned skin on a stove where he cauterized the stump, and dead zombies indicating that he got away. They later found out that he (presumably) stole the truck they came to Atlanta in, but he did not return to the camp to seek revenge as they expected. He hasn't been seen since then.

However, if they tweak the characteristics of one very significant bad guy from the comic, Merle would be a perfect stand-in for him, especially in the way he seeks revenge:

If they make Merle the villain called "The Governor," that character cut off Rick's right hand, which would be very much the eye for an eye type of vengeance Merle would be in favor of.



Topless Robot's 15 Walking Dead Moments from the Comics We Can't Believe We'll See in the TV Show (Spoilers, obviously)

The Governor in the comic doesn't look like Merle, of course, but given the way they introduced Merle and had his hand cut off, it made me instantly think that's what they were setting up.

[sojourner]

Kestrel wrote:

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Well... except this took place on-screen. Well, okay... not the event itself, but the aftermatch in full gory detail as a full-page panel

with the heads looking right at the reader

. Perhaps not the most chilling moment, but definitely up there and one of the most unexpected.

Nothing says it will happen on screen in the show.

[RJDiogenes]

Mark_Nguyen wrote:

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My wife and I observed that this show has yet to actually introduce clearly BAD people. With the arguable exception of Merle (who's more just an asshole than an actual baddie), everyone we've met so far are not really evil or a villainous type. They're all just survivors, not power-mad, greedy, or subject to a variety of bad-guy stereotypes as most zombie movies have given us. I find this pretty refreshing - pretty much anyone who would be the typical early victims early on in a zombie apocalypse are already dead. There are no cheerleaders, no jocks, no corporate bigwigs, no soldiers. They're all neural chow.

All we have left are the ordinary people, and as Rick said early on, they're all just white or dark meat. I know that in the comics some villains are eventually introduced, but so far I'm loving that the only theing they're doing so far is trying to survive. Something like spending 3+ episodes stuck on a highway close to an infected town while ont he way to a place they hope WILL be their salvation would never be done in a zombie movie. It's great.

Yes! This is a huge part of what makes this show great. No villains-- just the character interaction of diverse people under stress, but mostly trying to do the right thing. This is why all the "badass" talk (and some of the comics spoilers) worry me. I hope they don't go down that route; if the characters become dehumanized, the appeal will be lost for me.

Temis the Bleeding Aorta wrote:

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And that reminds me, did anyone see the History Channels' Zombies: A Living History? It made the same point - lone-wolf Rambo types won't be as likely to survive a zombie apocalypse than people who are good at forming social bonds and sharing resources - and also delved into zombie lore around the world, real world antecedents to zombie fears (actual history on the History Channel!!!), current events, groups like Zombie Squad that are actually doing some good spreading knowledge of disaster survival tactics, and offered some interesting tips on fighting zombies (leave the samurai sword at home, pick up a tire iron instead). And the ubiquitous Max Brooks got a lot of screen time.

I recorded it and watched the first half hour so far (kind of a busy week). Lots of interesting info so far. I hope they go into some depth with Voodoo Zombies, which have been neglected in literature and movies for a while.

[Vendikarr]

Mark_Nguyen wrote:

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Indeed. I'd only be worried about Carl or the other girl growing like Atlanta weeds in that time.

I'm sure that they'll build some natural breaks into the story to allow for the passage of time. Through eight episodes, we've passed through, what - a couple weeks since Rick woke up? And maybe three months since the apocalypse started?

In the comics they settle in at a prison, and are there for almost a year. At the end of this season they can arrive at the prison and when the next season returns, they can be a year (or more) in the future, allowing for growth of Carl and Sophia.

[PsychoPere]

Lucas is Bored wrote:

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However, if they tweak the characteristics of one very significant bad guy from the comic, Merle would be a perfect stand-in for him, especially in the way he seeks revenge

While this could change now that Glen Mazzara is in charge, Robert Kirkman has already said that he doesn't expect to make Merle into that character.

[Temis the Vorta]

I hope they go into some depth with Voodoo Zombies, which have been neglected in literature and movies for a while.

They don't go into too much depth but given that there are other traditions that are actually far closer to "modern" zombies, with the cannibalism and all, I think they give voodoo zombies enough air time. Modern zombies are mis-named. They should be called ghouls.

Also, there's no recognition of vampirism as a percursor to modern zombies. They're basically just vampires with different eating habits. There is some discussion of the medieval idea of the "revenant" though.

And I really wanted some mention of I Am Legend as being a precursor to modern zombies, since that's where I think the idea arose of zombies as being analogous to a plague. The ancient ghoul-type legends don't have that crucial aspect, which to me is a more modern idea. (And tracing things back further, Earth Abides should get credit as a precursor to I Am Legend, but that's probably getting too far afield.)

[sojourner]

In Richard Matheson's I am Legend it was closer to a vampire plague than the modern depiction of a zombie plague. The Vincent Price The Last Man on Earth version of it ran more toward zombies while Heston's Omegaman version was back more towards vampires again.

[Temis the Vorta]

Yeah Matheson had "vampire zombies" but the real noteworthy thing was the plague aspect - no vampire or zombie story that I know of before then had introduced that idea. Or even other related legends like golems and ghouls. The plague aspect is what makes it feel so modern in comparison with previous legends.

[sojourner]

True, but Romero, the first to do "plague" type zombies has never cited I Am Legend as an influence.