"Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

[JoeZhang]

Plus various adventures he had that were connected to his time in the war, also the Johns revamp of Alfred for the Earth-one line is an ex-special forces guy.

Pretty much. New isn't always improved.

But who the fuck knows until you've actually seen it?

[the G-man]

Everybody forms an initial opinion of whether something might be to their liking before seeing it. In fact, the whole point of network hype is to try and influence that opinion.

This idea sounds like something that isn't to my liking. It might be to others. But simply saying "it's new" isn't enough for me (or anyone else) to say "good idea." There needs to be something that sounds interesting or entertaining.

That being said, I'm open minded. If the show airs and there are good reviews and word of mouth I'll give it a chance. If the promos look interesting before it airs I'll give it a chance. I'm merely saying that, right now, it doesn't sound like the kind of Batman series I would enjoy.

[Captain Craig]

the G-man wrote:

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Pretty much. New isn't always improved. If they wanted something different, why not a "Batman and the Outsiders" series with Metamorpho, Katanna, Black Lightning, Halo, etc.? Or a "Batman and Robin" series with Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson (as opposed to "Batman" shows with occasional Robin appearances)? Or even a "Dark Knight" style show with an older Bruce, nearing retirement and a Carrie Kelly Robin?

How about a "Batman and the Birds of Prey" show? Team up Bruce with and Batgirl and Black Canary.

Well said.
I think some people can be as reactionary to the those of us just calling out the change. I've stated it's not going to stop me from watching the show, it's just vastly unusual. That we seem to agree on as a group.

Yes, Alfred has not JUST been a butler. His role is that of seamstress, red herring for Bruce's whereabouts, medic, interceptor(using his voice mimic technique) and property defender using yes a shotgun.

It is unusual for Alfred to be seen in the promos as obviously being a more DOMINANT ACTION character. With so many characters who are ACTION oriented why make Alfred a gun slinger. His niche functions well in the half-dozen or so roles he already occupies. As G-Man pointed out why not utilize and showcase other lesser knowns in the Bat circle. Katana touches on that, keeping with showcasing lesser known villains, but give us an Outsiders toon.

Why must Rick Jones get superpowers now? Why must Jimmy Olsen end up on JLA missions and/or getting brief powers. It's the sad syndrome of dragging every side character into the main action when their purpose is for something else. I'd argue the 'something else' is an anchor to the normal so they can voice matters of outlandish and wonder. That character is the stand-in for the viewer/reader.

By making Alfred, Rick, Jimmy players in the action it loses something of the narrative. IMO.

[the G-man]

Zombie Cheerleader wrote:

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He's been out and about a lot. Starting in the Golden Age when he fancied himself a Holmesian private detective. Then there were the times he took Batman's place in the Batman TV series. To name but two.

The first is seventy years old. The second one of the low points of the characters' history (hell, I was five years old and knew it was ridiculous that anyone believed that was really Batman when Alfred wore the suit).

I was speaking about the version of the character that has been pretty consistent for the past forty years. Sometimes he's sarcastic, sometimes he's got medical training, but he's always the guy who stays home (or drives the limo) while Bruce has the adventures.

Which makes sense. If Alfred is your "medic," not to mention chief cook, bottle washer and computer monitor, it makes little sense to put him in the line of fire. You've just lost your backup in case it all goes to hell.

[Christopher]

I admit I would've been more interested in the James Tucker Batman: No Man's Land proposal that was rejected in favor of Beware the Batman. And yeah, BtB sounds rather strange at first glance, and I'm not crazy about the character designs or the CGI approach. But Glen Murakami has managed to make offbeat, controversially revisionist concepts work well before. His take on Teen Titans was offputting at first, but I came to discover that it had a lot worth enjoying. And I've enjoyed the Murakami/McDuffie Ben 10 series as well; the stories in the past few seasons haven't been on the level of the first two Alien Force seasons, but the show's remained visually striking.

Anyway, I think if they're going to keep making one Batman show after another, it makes sense to get revisionist. Part of the reason The Batman wasn't wildly popular is perhaps that it wasn't revisionist enough to justify its existence. The Brave and the Bold has succeeded by taking a radically different approach to Batman and the DC Universe than its predecessors did (although one that's not so much revisionist as hyper-retro, but still a very distinctive approach to Batman on television). We've already had multiple incarnations of the formula of Batman teamed with Robin or Batgirl and Alfred being the loyal butler back home. At this point, a new show should attempt a new variation on the theme. And a Batman/Alfred/Katana team is certainly a fresh idea. And since we only have one sentence and one image to base our responses on, it's premature to assume anything about how Alfred's participation will actually play out.

[Praetor_Shinzon]

Captain Craig wrote:

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Well said.
I think some people can be as reactionary to the those of us just calling out the change. I've stated it's not going to stop me from watching the show, it's just vastly unusual. That we seem to agree on as a group.

Yes, Alfred has not JUST been a butler. His role is that of seamstress, red herring for Bruce's whereabouts, medic, interceptor(using his voice mimic technique) and property defender using yes a shotgun.

It is unusual for Alfred to be seen in the promos as obviously being a more DOMINANT ACTION character. With so many characters who are ACTION oriented why make Alfred a gun slinger. His niche functions well in the half-dozen or so roles he already occupies. As G-Man pointed out why not utilize and showcase other lesser knowns in the Bat circle. Katana touches on that, keeping with showcasing lesser known villains, but give us an Outsiders toon.

Why must Rick Jones get superpowers now? Why must Jimmy Olsen end up on JLA missions and/or getting brief powers. It's the sad syndrome of dragging every side character into the main action when their purpose is for something else. I'd argue the 'something else' is an anchor to the normal so they can voice matters of outlandish and wonder. That character is the stand-in for the viewer/reader.

By making Alfred, Rick, Jimmy players in the action it loses something of the narrative. IMO.

except that Rick Jones has always been a player in 'the action'. he's responsible for the Hulk being born and has been his sidekick off and on ever since. he was Bucky for a short, very short, time. he brought the Avengers together (with the Teen Brigade). he was bound to Captain Marvel and later his son. was involved in the Destiny War. heck, he even had a music career for a short time.

[Christopher]

I'm not crazy about the "gun-toting" part, but I have no problem with an alternate take on Alfred Pennyworth that makes him a more active crimefighter. I've always liked the "Badass Normal" supporting characters like Alfred and Commissioner Gordon, and I like the idea of bringing them more into the spotlight. Heck, some of Alfred's finest moments in various media have involved demonstrating his fighting prowess. For instance, the episode of the '66 Batman that climaxed with Alfred single-handedly defeating the Joker with no help from Batman and Robin, first out-fencing the Joker when he tried to rob Wayne Manor, then trapping him on the Batpoles (which he'd conveniently been cleaning so the identifying signs were gone) and using the compressed-air lift to send him repeatedly up and down until he begged for mercy. That was completely awesome.

And after all, it is an alternate take. It's not like it erases or replaces the more conventional interpretations of the character. It doesn't take anything away, it adds something new.

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm sure it's not going to be everyone's fondest memory, but in the 60's Dozier series, Alfred did more than a little field work (link). He donned a mask, and even posed as Batman himself. Search (case-insensitive) for alf on this page to find at least some of these Alfred episodes.

[USS Kongo]

Any mention on when and where this will air? Or is it too soon to know?

Sean

[Mr. Adventure]

USS Kongo wrote:

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Any mention on when and where this will air? Or is it too soon to know?

Sean

It will be on Cartoon Network but seeing as we currently have one picture total from this project I doubt a precise date is known.

[Admiral_Young]

It's slated for 2013. No air date yet though. I'm guessing because it is it's early stages of development still. I too would have been more interested in James Tucker's Batman: No Man's Land proposal over this but I'll give it a look see.

[Captain Craig]

I'll THIRD the choice for the No Man's Land animated show. That promo art looked way more interesting.

[JD]

^I'm with you guys there too.

[Brikar99]

I liked "No Man's Land" but would it really lend itself to an ongoing TV series? I feel like that's more of a couple of mini-series or a two-part movie or something.

[Christopher]

Brikar99 wrote:

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I liked "No Man's Land" but would it really lend itself to an ongoing TV series? I feel like that's more of a couple of mini-series or a two-part movie or something.

Actually I've been looking into it, and it seems that the only information we actually have about this rejected pitch comes from a single DeviantArt post by Coran Stone, the character designer James Tucker hired, and what he said was:

Even though all of the heads at Cartoon Network liked the designs one felt the premise (more of a "no mans land") was too dark and grim so they scrapped it.

That sounds to me like he wasn't actually saying it was No Man's Land, just that it was along similar lines or had a similar tone.

Anyway, just for the sake of argument, even if it was actually going to be based on No Man's Land, that was a series that encompassed 85 distinct issues, so I could see a variant of it sustaining a 65-episode TV series. And heck, lots of long-running TV series have been based on shorter works like novels or movies. You can always add more episodes, or take the story in a different direction that makes it run longer than the original work did.