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Old July 21 2012, 06:11 PM   #196
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

It took both "The Batman" and especially "Brave and the Bold" to grow on me. I think I didn't get into "The Batman" until it's second or third season, but then I grew to love it. Same with "Brave and the Bold" and it's Morrison-like "everything is continuity" approach to the mythos. I'm sure that it will take a little adjustment period with "Beware the Batman" as well with me.
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Old July 21 2012, 08:59 PM   #197
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Donald Draper wrote: View Post
Batman Begins was animated?
Fixed. I always get those two titles mixed up.
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Old July 22 2012, 08:05 AM   #198
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

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The Batman was the weakest of the modern Batman animated shows to date (at least, the ones about Bruce Wayne as Batman -- I was never that crazy about Batman Beyond)
BLASPHEMY! BURN THE WITCH!

I'm kind of surprised you don't care for Batman Beyond. Hell, in many respects it shared much more in common with Silver Age Batman stories (fantastical and "wierd" enemies, Batman running around carrying an Eggbaby ), but with the added bonus of down-to-earth, albeit teenage/high-school personal drama, which even now resonates a lot with me, and especially growing up with it as I did with the original B:TAS and TNBA (which is actually the series that I consider the weakest aside from JLU, due to some very questionable character design changes, terrible recasting on some secondaries and villians, and more often than not making Batman a hardened dick-hole, even though this aspect made for a perfect setup for Beyond.)

It was also a fascinating character study on Terry, since it was the first time I had the opportunity to explore how/why a non-Wayne would take up the cape-and-cowl, which is essentially the entire point of Return of the Joker. In many ways, it legitimizes the point that Bat-mite makes in TB&TB; that the persona and character of Batman is just as "true" as a hardened costumed psycho, stern detective, or jovial man-child. Hell, the thesis to "A Bat Divided!" is that Batman is a great hero because he's more complex than any single genre trope. It's actually my favorite Batman episode of any show to date, primarily for how adeptly it gets that point across.

Oh, and "Epilogue" never happened. I don't care that the conceit that the storyline was supposed to be the next DTV movie after ROTJ; it's stupid, world-shrinking, and destroys any and all dramatic and narrative weight to the entire series. Ace's death scene was not worth three years of good television down the tube.

*ahem*
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Old July 22 2012, 02:21 PM   #199
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

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I'm kind of surprised you don't care for Batman Beyond. Hell, in many respects it shared much more in common with Silver Age Batman stories (fantastical and "wierd" enemies, Batman running around carrying an Eggbaby ), but with the added bonus of down-to-earth, albeit teenage/high-school personal drama...
The high school stuff was what bored me the most. I think the first and third seasons are okay, and Return of the Joker was excellent, but aside from the addition of Max, the second season does nothing for me. In the first season, the emphasis was more on organized crime and corporate corruption, but the second season dropped that in favor of a more "teenage" focus, and it got ridiculous how many students and teachers at Hamilton Hill High turned out to be involved in criminal enterprises or got transformed into super-powered lunatics or whatever.


It was also a fascinating character study on Terry, since it was the first time I had the opportunity to explore how/why a non-Wayne would take up the cape-and-cowl, which is essentially the entire point of Return of the Joker.
Which would've been more fascinating if Terry hadn't just been Peter Parker in a Batsuit. The whole series is basically "What if Spider-Man were Batman -- in the future?!" Not that I actually realized the connection the first time I watched the series; I just didn't find Terry a particularly worthy successor to the cowl. He was just some punk kid who stumbled into it. I could never look at him and think "Batman."

And the new rogues' gallery never interested me. The villains in B:TAS actually had interesting personalities and motivations and hang-ups. The villains in BB were just powers and gimmicks, no personality, no reason for doing what they did. Like Shriek. Here's this sound engineer who invents a sonic weapon. Okay, fine. But when Powers tells him to put on a costume and personally assassinate Batman, he just goes ahead and does it. Why? Why is this engineer hiring himself out as a killer? What drives him? The writers gave no thought to that. They literally just had their artists draw a bunch of character designs for villains and wrote stories about those drawings. The villains were as superficial as you could get.

The only times I really got into the show was when it revisited characters and threads from B:TAS. I was actually invested in those characters and ideas, and they interested me far more than the new stuff. (I did like Max a lot, though. Terry should really have dumped that bland Dana for the much more fascinating Max.)

Also, I couldn't stand that constant headbanging heavy metal music. A huge letdown after the gorgeous orchestral work of the previous DCAU shows. Music is an important part of what gets me emotionally invested in a show, and if the music is offputting to me, it keeps me from caring as much about what's happening onscreen.


Oh, and "Epilogue" never happened. I don't care that the conceit that the storyline was supposed to be the next DTV movie after ROTJ; it's stupid, world-shrinking, and destroys any and all dramatic and narrative weight to the entire series.
I couldn't disagree more. It actually made me feel for the first time that Terry deserved the mantle of Batman. (Although at the time, I hadn't yet seen RotJ, which might've made me better disposed toward him.)
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Old July 23 2012, 05:56 AM   #200
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
Oh, and "Epilogue" never happened. I don't care that the conceit that the storyline was supposed to be the next DTV movie after ROTJ; it's stupid, world-shrinking, and destroys any and all dramatic and narrative weight to the entire series.
I couldn't disagree more. It actually made me feel for the first time that Terry deserved the mantle of Batman. (Although at the time, I hadn't yet seen RotJ, which might've made me better disposed toward him.)
+1. I love Epilogue.
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Old July 23 2012, 11:19 PM   #201
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

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Old July 24 2012, 02:43 AM   #202
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I too loved "Epilogue". I still remember when it first aired...it was so unexpected for me...that I nearly fell off the couch in surprise when I saw it. Just an awesome episode.
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Old July 24 2012, 04:56 AM   #203
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

"Epilogue" was awesome. I was totally in awe of the episode when I first saw it.
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Old July 24 2012, 06:50 PM   #204
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I dunno, maybe I'm a stick in the mud, but the entire story behind Terry Bruce's actual son just felt like a giant FU not just to Beyond fans, but to a lot of people, characters and themes that were a part of B:TAS. My problem isn't that "Epilogue" reads like a soap opera, but a really, really half-assed soap opera, one that appears not to realize how badly it undercut the series (plural) it was paying tribute to.

I was going to breakdown why this episode can gain such ire from me, but I've already been shut down by better people, so why bother?
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Old July 24 2012, 07:48 PM   #205
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I don't think it undercut the series at all. I think it was trying to honour the series personally. They knew they were never going to be able to properly finish "Batman Beyond" so they wrote this episode for the fans of the entire Timm'Verse and "Batman Beyond" series to enjoy. That's how I always have looked at it. I know there are fans who don't like the episode for whatever reason and that's fine, but I really loved it.
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Old July 27 2012, 11:56 PM   #206
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Another vote for loving "Epilogue".

"Aurora shooting prompts changes to new Batman cartoon..."

Warner Animation VP and series executive producer Sam Register is reported as ordering a review of the entire series, leading to alterations including, "changing the shape of gun barrels from round to square for the purpose of rendering the weapons in a more stylized manner reminiscent of sci-fi fare."
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Old July 28 2012, 01:56 AM   #207
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Meaning: OH NOES NOT TEH BOOLETS. TEH PARENTS WILL GETS TEH MAD IF THERE ARE TEH BOOLETS THAT SHOOTS DA MANS DAT FALLS DAUN WIT TEH BLUD.

No, I don't care about the shooting in this instance, because this is a non-issue. Are studios going to change films like the new Expendables because of the shooting too?
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Old July 28 2012, 02:22 AM   #208
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Warner Bros is making changes to "Gangster Squad" and pushed it back to Jan.
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Old July 28 2012, 10:58 PM   #209
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I understand what happened was horrible, and I can understand changing the theater shooting in Gangster Squad, but IMO this is closing in on overcompensation. Especially since this won't be airing until next year, by that time this won't even be on the majority of peoples minds.
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Old July 28 2012, 11:16 PM   #210
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I don't like it because it seems at odds artistically with the direction of the show (from what little I know) and because it helps build the legend of Holmes.

OTOH, a lot of people seem to have trouble divorcing stuff like this from what happened. I'm not one of those people so I tend to be insensitive a lot and maybe this is a smart thing to do, I don't know.

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