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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 26 2010, 08:37 AM   #1
Snaploud
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WTF Moments

I just re-watched The Quality of Life. There's one exchange in this episode that really felt like a WTF moment.

Data is convinced that the exocomps are artificial lifeforms, and Riker wants to send the exocomps on a suicide mission to save Picard and Geordie.

Riker starts off with the basic argument that he isn't going to risk Picard and Geordie's lives on a hunch that the exocomps are lifeforms. Okay, that seems somewhat reasonable.

The problem is that it's then brought up that if the exocomps are lifeforms they might refuse to go on the mission. The guest star suggests that they disable the ability for the exocomps to make their own decisions. Riker says to make it happen.

So...Riker is fine with sacrificing the exocomps because it's just a hunch that the exocomps are lifeforms...except that he is willing to disable the exocomp's ability to think for itself on the off chance that they might be lifeforms and therefore unwilling to go on a suicide mission...

???

Anybody else have a WTF moment while watching TNG...?
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Old February 27 2010, 01:45 AM   #2
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Re: WTF Moments

^yes, Cause and Effect
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Old February 27 2010, 01:50 AM   #3
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Re: WTF Moments

Snaploud wrote: View Post
I just re-watched The Quality of Life. There's one exchange in this episode that really felt like a WTF moment.

Data is convinced that the exocomps are artificial lifeforms, and Riker wants to send the exocomps on a suicide mission to save Picard and Geordie.

Riker starts off with the basic argument that he isn't going to risk Picard and Geordie's lives on a hunch that the exocomps are lifeforms. Okay, that seems somewhat reasonable.

The problem is that it's then brought up that if the exocomps are lifeforms they might refuse to go on the mission. The guest star suggests that they disable the ability for the exocomps to make their own decisions. Riker says to make it happen.

So...Riker is fine with sacrificing the exocomps because it's just a hunch that the exocomps are lifeforms...except that he is willing to disable the exocomp's ability to think for itself on the off chance that they might be lifeforms and therefore unwilling to go on a suicide mission...

???

Anybody else have a WTF moment while watching TNG...?
You said it for yourself though...it was a -hunch- that the exocomps were lifeforms. If they were, disable their ability to refuse to go on the mission. If they weren't, disabling their ability to refuse is a waste of time. Either way, -not- disabling it could have resulted in their refusal, which would have been a problem.

I'm not sure how this is a WTF.
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Old February 27 2010, 03:08 AM   #4
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Re: WTF Moments

When Riker vaporises Yuta in The Vengeance Factor. I thought WTF why the hell didn't you just beam her out?

The entire episode of The High Ground.

Picard's stunt double in season 3. In Who Watches The Watchers (a good episode BTW) you see Picard ready to take an arrow and then it goes to the alien and he fires and then the next thing you see is the arrow travelling at a wee ugly guy and he does a dramatic jump back and takes the arrow for Jean-Luc. He's in The High Ground too, when 'Picard' punches the terrorist.

Dr Beverly's shocking behaviour in The Host when she takes advantage of Riker. You could argue that Riker probably knew it would happen and that was why he volunteered to be the host in the first place but it was still questionable behaviour. I thought it was a very good episode though but the final scene ought to have been Dr Beverly nervously visiting Riker to try to explain what happened and Riker telling her it was OK and giving her a hug.
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Old February 27 2010, 04:11 AM   #5
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Re: WTF Moments

DonIago wrote: View Post
You said it for yourself though...it was a -hunch- that the exocomps were lifeforms. If they were, disable their ability to refuse to go on the mission. If they weren't, disabling their ability to refuse is a waste of time. Either way, -not- disabling it could have resulted in their refusal, which would have been a problem.

I'm not sure how this is a WTF.
Because the basis for sending them on the mission is that they aren't alive. If they were alive, it would be a basis for not sending them on a mission.

It's not irrational--if Riker doesn't care if they're life forms, and is willing to insure against the possibility in order to acheive his goals. But it is a disingenuous argument. "If they're alive, I would not send them; I do not believe they are alive, so I will send them; however, if I am wrong, I should make sure that they can't prove I am by disabling their free will." Interestingly, the converse would be fine: "If they're alive, and I don't take away their free will, it covers my moral bases--because they'll either refuse, which is fine, because they're alive and have that right, or they'll go on the mission because they chose to, or they'll go on the mission because they aren't alive and hence don't care about the hazards."

But then again, Riker is murderer. Indeed, the clone-killing scene in "Up the Long Ladder" is the WTF moment of all time, if you ask me.

From the absolute shit science (aging a clone to thirty; growing him in a couple of days, maybe hours) to the extremely uncomfortable blind acceptance of the morality of vaporizing what is no different from an identical twin (watch out, Tom Riker!), it's probably the nadir of Trek. I'd rather watch Salamander People fuck.
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Old February 27 2010, 04:12 AM   #6
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Re: WTF Moments

Snaploud wrote: View Post
I just re-watched The Quality of Life. There's one exchange in this episode that really felt like a WTF moment.

Data is convinced that the exocomps are artificial lifeforms, and Riker wants to send the exocomps on a suicide mission to save Picard and Geordie.

Riker starts off with the basic argument that he isn't going to risk Picard and Geordie's lives on a hunch that the exocomps are lifeforms. Okay, that seems somewhat reasonable.

The problem is that it's then brought up that if the exocomps are lifeforms they might refuse to go on the mission. The guest star suggests that they disable the ability for the exocomps to make their own decisions. Riker says to make it happen.

So...Riker is fine with sacrificing the exocomps because it's just a hunch that the exocomps are lifeforms...except that he is willing to disable the exocomp's ability to think for itself on the off chance that they might be lifeforms and therefore unwilling to go on a suicide mission...

???

Anybody else have a WTF moment while watching TNG...?
i think with that one it was more because they had just "proved" that the exocomps weren't life forms from the test that they had actually passed because they knew it was a test. Data doesn't go into details about how he knows they're life forms, he's just all, "they didn't really fail!" and beverly wasn't much help backing him up there because, you know, it's beverly and she really seems to struggle with giving pertinent information.

anyhow, yes i've totally had some wtf moments. mostly i think of this image:


i mean, what's going on with his face there? it's like mr. ed meets dracula.
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Old February 27 2010, 04:22 AM   #7
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Re: WTF Moments

Mr Troi wrote: View Post
When Riker vaporises Yuta in The Vengeance Factor. I thought WTF why the hell didn't you just beam her out?
They were on an alien ship at the time. It may not have had a transporter. And if it did, Yuta probably disabled it.
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Old February 27 2010, 04:27 AM   #8
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Re: WTF Moments

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Mr Troi wrote: View Post
When Riker vaporises Yuta in The Vengeance Factor. I thought WTF why the hell didn't you just beam her out?
They were on an alien ship at the time. It may not have had a transporter. And if it did, Yuta probably disabled it.
The Enterprise had a transporter though.
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Old February 27 2010, 06:43 AM   #9
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Re: WTF Moments

Picard in In Theory:
"And I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some I'll let you know."
He didn't have any trouble understanding Vash, Beverly or Darren....
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Old February 27 2010, 07:28 AM   #10
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Re: WTF Moments

Mr Troi wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Mr Troi wrote: View Post
When Riker vaporises Yuta in The Vengeance Factor. I thought WTF why the hell didn't you just beam her out?
They were on an alien ship at the time. It may not have had a transporter. And if it did, Yuta probably disabled it.
The Enterprise had a transporter though.
Riker would have to communicate with the Enterprise first. Would Yuta have let him? I doubt that. She was all set on killing Chorgan and would not have let the Enterprise beam him or her away.
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Old February 27 2010, 07:41 AM   #11
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Re: WTF Moments

RegFan wrote: View Post
Picard in In Theory:
"And I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some I'll let you know."
He didn't have any trouble understanding Vash, Beverly or Darren....
No he didn't. I don't always understand my fiancée....
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Old February 27 2010, 08:50 AM   #12
Admiral Shran
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Re: WTF Moments

In The Outcast....

After Soren's arrest , Riker discusses his options with Picard. Picard tells him that interfering will be a violation of the Prime Directive. Near the end of the meeting, Picard lightly warns Riker not to do anything that would jeopardize his career. Riker and Worf then go to the palnet, beat up two J'naii, and try to hustle Soren back to the Enterprise.

Clearly, Picard knew Riker would try to save Soren. Clearly, Picard knew that was a violation of the Prime Directive. Yet, he 1.) quietly lets Riker proceed, 2.) makes no effort to stop him, and 3.) when all is said and done, has the basic attitude of "I don't give a shit."

This is the same guy, Picard, who severely reprimanded Worf for killing Duras. Worf, however, acted completely within the bounds of Klingon law and norms of conduct. What he did wasn't even a violation of the Prime Directive. So, why the lack of any punishment, not even a wrist-slap, for Riker's infinitely more questionable action?

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I'd rather watch Salamander People fuck.
Oh God! Why did you have to bring that up? I'm going to need a double dose of Repressitol pills tonight.
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Old February 27 2010, 09:29 AM   #13
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Re: WTF Moments

I am a bad person.
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Old February 27 2010, 10:10 AM   #14
Gil T.Azell
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Re: WTF Moments

Mr Troi wrote: View Post
When Riker vaporises Yuta in The Vengeance Factor. I thought WTF why the hell didn't you just beam her out?
After secertly shtuping her and then finding out her real age he wanted no stories to slip out and how small his "little will" was.
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Old February 27 2010, 11:42 AM   #15
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Re: WTF Moments

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
Clearly, Picard knew Riker would try to save Soren. Clearly, Picard knew that was a violation of the Prime Directive. Yet, he 1.) quietly lets Riker proceed, 2.) makes no effort to stop him, and 3.) when all is said and done, has the basic attitude of "I don't give a shit."
Maybe because we fall into the trap of believing that Picard is someone who don't makes mistakes, or have any weaknesses, by no fault of our own I might add.

Most of the show is dragged around by the nose by Picard's unmistakable sense of moral obligation--but after all he is still just human and he even if he tries his best to remain neutral in each and every aspect, it is impossible for him not to break some rules along the way.

Some of his moral character lies close to that of Kirk in a way--he make the hard choices, get the wheels rolling, and concequences be damned.
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