Tuvoks Rank ???

Nero's Shadow · October 2 2011, 11:15 AM

I've started to watch Voyager again and I've just started to watch the 2nd season I'd noticed that tuvoks rank went from LT CDMR to LT in the 2nd season. So what did we miss did janeway drop his rank because of chakotay been jealous or was tuvok a better choice to be 1st officer !!!

If my memories serves me janeway lost at least two senior crew members 1st officer and chief medical officer so there would of been plenty of opportunity for promotions.

So your answers people !!!!

Mage · October 2 2011, 12:07 PM

I always thought he was demoted because of his actions in aquiring the spatial deflector thingy that could transport the entire ship thousands of lightyears, somewhere in season 1.

However, the episode after that he was still a Lt.Cmdr and only after that one he was a Lt. Then, early in season 4 he was promoted back to Lt.Cmdr.

Seven of Five · October 2 2011, 12:08 PM

From the get-go, the producers intended for Tuvok to be a Lieutenant - I think it was in the writer's bible? However, due to a costuming error, Tuvok had Lieutenant Commander rank insignia on his neck, which was contradicted each time a different character referred to him as Lieutenant.

This error was corrected during the first season at some point. I can't remember the exact episode off hand, but it's theorised that Tuvok was demoted after his actions in Prime Factors, when he stole that technology. Though I have no evidence that it all matches up, it's as good a fudge as any.

King Daniel · October 2 2011, 09:07 PM

I never noticed.

JB2005 · October 2 2011, 09:36 PM

The reason for his apparent demotion was that it was a costuming error. In-universe however, we see the change just after he's had a dressing down from Janeway, which would account for the demotion.

Although re: the act of taking the spatial folder thing...why exactly was it wrong to do this...especially after this scene in Dark Frontier in Season 5:

[Janeway]: Okay people, we've previously established that acquiring things on the black market is wrong, yes?

[Devoted Janeway Followers]: Yes

[Janeway]: In fact it's so wrong to perpetrate this victimless crime, that Tuvok here lost his imaginary rank for it.

[Tuvok]: Indeed.

[Janeway]: So it's obvious we need to commit a crime that will have actual victims. That's why i've decided that the best thing to do is to engage in piracy in order to steal technology from the borg that will allow us to get home.

[Devoted Janeway Followers]: Hooray!

[Janeway]: Now I know what you're thinking, the Borg we kill could be saved and turned back into people, just like Cybertits...sorry, Seven of Breasts over there. But you're forgetting, this could be our only chance to make a Voyager Movie, and our ratings are in the pan...so jump to! Now anyway as I was saying...Helm minion...sorry, Tom? Fort Nox?

Seriously?

froot · October 2 2011, 11:14 PM

Knox*

I'm actually not a fan of the end of "Prime Factors." It was too harsh, and I do think KJ was in the wrong there. Forget "Dark Frontier," I think "Resistance" undoes that episode all on its own.

But, regarding "DF,"
1) The plan to yoink the coil never included killing any Borg. Also, at the start of the episode, they accidentally took out the Borg scouter and wanted to look for survivors.
2) This occurred four seasons and a ton of misadventures later, most notably after they had done a bit of ethical wrestling re: the Prime Directive.
3) The Feds were technically at war with the Borg already, and Voyager in particular seeing as how the Borg dicked them at the end of "Scorpion."

Pretty good strawman, though. Although it really needs a festive hat.

And yeah, Tuvok's "demotion" was a costuming oops.

Keith1701 · October 3 2011, 04:42 PM

Good catch for sure.

USS Excelsior · October 3 2011, 05:16 PM

How hard is it not to pay attention when putting the pips on the collar every day.

Timo · October 3 2011, 05:31 PM

If we choose to think that Tuvok was "really" demoted, due to the mutiny in "Prime Factors" (even if there was a processing delay there), then we can argue that Janeway never promoted anybody (but merely restored rank for those she had temporarily demoted). Which is good, because it allows us to argue that Janeway felt she wasn't entitled to promote anybody without direct Starfleet approval. Since she had none (at least not until "Message in a Bottle" or perhaps "Pathfinder", Kim stayed an Ensign.

That eliminates any costuming errors (except for the odd fluctuation between two ranks in "Cathexis" where Tuvok finally loses his extra half pip), but it leaves us with half a dozen instances where Tuvok is referred to as "Lieutenant" or refers to himself as such.

Of these references, half may be chalked up as references to Tuvok being Janeway's trusted lieutenant, regardless of his exact rank. Half are formal introductions, though, and clearly would warrant calling him Lieutenant Commander Tuvok.

So it's a choice between a season-long costuming error (which doesn't help explain Kim's lack of promotion) and at least three major dialogue errors (which do help explain the promotion thing and come with the built-in rationale of "Prime Factors").

Timo Saloniemi

Mark_Nguyen · October 3 2011, 06:00 PM

Hey, don't forget! Paris and Torres also got demoted too!

Mark

Squiggy · October 3 2011, 06:21 PM

Everyone's rank history

Janeway: Captain - full series, promoted to Rear Admiral between 54973.4 (Endgame) and 56844.9 (Nemesis)

Chakotay: made Commander-provisional around 48350 (end of Caretaker). Wore the rank of Lieutenant Commander-provisional for the entire series. Shown as Captain in Before and After set sometime in 2380.

Paris: Reinstated to Lieutenant 48350 (end of Caretaker). Rank varied between LT and LTJG during season 1. Remained LTJG from Season 2 on. Reduced to Ensign on 52179.4 (Thirty Days). Promoted to LTJG prior to 54000 (Unimatrix Zero). Shown as Lieutenant Commander and presumably First Officer in Before and After set sometime in 2380.

Tuvok: Shown as Lieutenant Commander but refered to as "Lieutenant" instead of the proper "Commander" during the first half of season one. Shown as Lieutenant as of 48734.2 (Cathexis). Promoted to Lieutenant Commander around 51186.2 (Revulsion)

Kim: Ensign, full series. Shown as Lieutenant in Before and After set sometime in 2380. Promoted to Captain sometime before stardate 78500 or January 2404 (Endgame)

Torres: Shown as LT-provisional around 48350 (end of Caretaker). Shown as LTJG-provisional for the remainder of the series. Was same rank as Paris in Displaced on 50912.4.

tighr · October 3 2011, 07:08 PM

You forgot Neelix, who is an Ensign in Year of Hell. (Sorta).

USS Excelsior · October 3 2011, 07:09 PM

That dead abducted woman said Tuvok got a promotion when she was discovered by the Voyager crew.

Squiggy · October 3 2011, 07:34 PM

tighr wrote:

You forgot Neelix, who is an Ensign in Year of Hell. (Sorta).

I try to leave out Neelix when I can get away with it.

apollo1984 · October 4 2011, 05:55 PM

I think it was just a costume mistake that Tuvok was a Lt Cmdr in the first season (even the opening credits list him as Lt).

They realised their mistake for the second season and corrected him, however they had given Paris and Torres full Lt rank in season 1 and wanted Tuvok to be a rank above them so they got knocked down to LTJG.

October 2 2011, 11:15 AM	#1
Nero's Shadow Captain Location: Into Darkness !!!	Tuvoks Rank ??? I've started to watch Voyager again and I've just started to watch the 2nd season I'd noticed that tuvoks rank went from LT CDMR to LT in the 2nd season. So what did we miss did janeway drop his rank because of chakotay been jealous or was tuvok a better choice to be 1st officer !!! If my memories serves me janeway lost at least two senior crew members 1st officer and chief medical officer so there would of been plenty of opportunity for promotions. So your answers people !!!! __________________ That green blooded son of a bitch !!!!

October 2 2011, 12:07 PM	#2
Mage Fleet Captain	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? I always thought he was demoted because of his actions in aquiring the spatial deflector thingy that could transport the entire ship thousands of lightyears, somewhere in season 1. However, the episode after that he was still a Lt.Cmdr and only after that one he was a Lt. Then, early in season 4 he was promoted back to Lt.Cmdr. __________________ Niner. Lurker. Browncoat.

October 2 2011, 12:08 PM	#3
Seven of Five Commodore Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? From the get-go, the producers intended for Tuvok to be a Lieutenant - I think it was in the writer's bible? However, due to a costuming error, Tuvok had Lieutenant Commander rank insignia on his neck, which was contradicted each time a different character referred to him as Lieutenant. This error was corrected during the first season at some point. I can't remember the exact episode off hand, but it's theorised that Tuvok was demoted after his actions in Prime Factors, when he stole that technology. Though I have no evidence that it all matches up, it's as good a fudge as any. __________________ I love how coffee makes me feel. It's like my heart is trying to hug my brain!

October 2 2011, 09:07 PM	#4
King Daniel Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? I never noticed.

October 2 2011, 09:36 PM	#5
JB2005 Commodore Location: England, UK	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? The reason for his apparent demotion was that it was a costuming error. In-universe however, we see the change just after he's had a dressing down from Janeway, which would account for the demotion. Although re: the act of taking the spatial folder thing...why exactly was it wrong to do this...especially after this scene in Dark Frontier in Season 5: [Janeway]: Okay people, we've previously established that acquiring things on the black market is wrong, yes? [Devoted Janeway Followers]: Yes [Janeway]: In fact it's so wrong to perpetrate this victimless crime, that Tuvok here lost his imaginary rank for it. [Tuvok]: Indeed. [Janeway]: So it's obvious we need to commit a crime that will have actual victims. That's why i've decided that the best thing to do is to engage in piracy in order to steal technology from the borg that will allow us to get home. [Devoted Janeway Followers]: Hooray! [Janeway]: Now I know what you're thinking, the Borg we kill could be saved and turned back into people, just like Cybertits...sorry, Seven of Breasts over there. But you're forgetting, this could be our only chance to make a Voyager Movie, and our ratings are in the pan...so jump to! Now anyway as I was saying...Helm minion...sorry, Tom? Fort Nox? Seriously? __________________ Click here to see my failed attempt to write a children's story!

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

October 2 2011, 11:14 PM	#6
froot Fleet Captain Location: Guarding the Compound with the Grey Wardens	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? Knox* I'm actually not a fan of the end of "Prime Factors." It was too harsh, and I do think KJ was in the wrong there. Forget "Dark Frontier," I think "Resistance" undoes that episode all on its own. But, regarding "DF," 1) The plan to yoink the coil never included killing any Borg. Also, at the start of the episode, they accidentally took out the Borg scouter and wanted to look for survivors. 2) This occurred four seasons and a ton of misadventures later, most notably after they had done a bit of ethical wrestling re: the Prime Directive. 3) The Feds were technically at war with the Borg already, and Voyager in particular seeing as how the Borg dicked them at the end of "Scorpion." Pretty good strawman, though. Although it really needs a festive hat. And yeah, Tuvok's "demotion" was a costuming oops.

October 3 2011, 04:42 PM	#7
Keith1701 Rear Admiral Location: Warner Robins Georgia	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? Good catch for sure. __________________ Keith1701 Live Long, and Prosper.... "Make It So" -- ENGAGE!!!!

October 3 2011, 05:16 PM	#8
USS Excelsior Fleet Captain Location: Alpha Quadrant	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? How hard is it not to pay attention when putting the pips on the collar every day.

October 3 2011, 05:31 PM	#9
Timo Admiral	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? If we choose to think that Tuvok was "really" demoted, due to the mutiny in "Prime Factors" (even if there was a processing delay there), then we can argue that Janeway never promoted anybody (but merely restored rank for those she had temporarily demoted). Which is good, because it allows us to argue that Janeway felt she wasn't entitled to promote anybody without direct Starfleet approval. Since she had none (at least not until "Message in a Bottle" or perhaps "Pathfinder", Kim stayed an Ensign. That eliminates any costuming errors (except for the odd fluctuation between two ranks in "Cathexis" where Tuvok finally loses his extra half pip), but it leaves us with half a dozen instances where Tuvok is referred to as "Lieutenant" or refers to himself as such. Of these references, half may be chalked up as references to Tuvok being Janeway's trusted lieutenant, regardless of his exact rank. Half are formal introductions, though, and clearly would warrant calling him Lieutenant Commander Tuvok. So it's a choice between a season-long costuming error (which doesn't help explain Kim's lack of promotion) and at least three major dialogue errors (which do help explain the promotion thing and come with the built-in rationale of "Prime Factors"). Timo Saloniemi

October 3 2011, 06:00 PM	#10
Mark_Nguyen Commodore Location: Calgary, Alberta	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? Hey, don't forget! Paris and Torres also got demoted too! Mark __________________ Mark Nguyen - Producer The 404s - Improv Comedy Group Oh, I like that Trek thing too...

October 3 2011, 06:21 PM	#11
Squiggy Shit Supreme Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? Everyone's rank history Janeway: Captain - full series, promoted to Rear Admiral between 54973.4 (Endgame) and 56844.9 (Nemesis) Chakotay: made Commander-provisional around 48350 (end of Caretaker). Wore the rank of Lieutenant Commander-provisional for the entire series. Shown as Captain in Before and After set sometime in 2380. Paris: Reinstated to Lieutenant 48350 (end of Caretaker). Rank varied between LT and LTJG during season 1. Remained LTJG from Season 2 on. Reduced to Ensign on 52179.4 (Thirty Days). Promoted to LTJG prior to 54000 (Unimatrix Zero). Shown as Lieutenant Commander and presumably First Officer in Before and After set sometime in 2380. Tuvok: Shown as Lieutenant Commander but refered to as "Lieutenant" instead of the proper "Commander" during the first half of season one. Shown as Lieutenant as of 48734.2 (Cathexis). Promoted to Lieutenant Commander around 51186.2 (Revulsion) Kim: Ensign, full series. Shown as Lieutenant in Before and After set sometime in 2380. Promoted to Captain sometime before stardate 78500 or January 2404 (Endgame) Torres: Shown as LT-provisional around 48350 (end of Caretaker). Shown as LTJG-provisional for the remainder of the series. Was same rank as Paris in Displaced on 50912.4. __________________ ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!

October 3 2011, 07:08 PM	#12
tighr Commodore Location: California	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? You forgot Neelix, who is an Ensign in Year of Hell. (Sorta). __________________ ~Tighr™: Not helping the situation since 1983

October 3 2011, 07:09 PM	#13
USS Excelsior Fleet Captain Location: Alpha Quadrant	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? That dead abducted woman said Tuvok got a promotion when she was discovered by the Voyager crew.

October 4 2011, 05:55 PM	#15
apollo1984 Lieutenant Junior Grade	Re: Tuvoks Rank ??? I think it was just a costume mistake that Tuvok was a Lt Cmdr in the first season (even the opening credits list him as Lt). They realised their mistake for the second season and corrected him, however they had given Paris and Torres full Lt rank in season 1 and wanted Tuvok to be a rank above them so they got knocked down to LTJG.