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Old April 2 2014, 05:37 PM   #1
Gerbil13
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If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

If the Empire(star wars) defeated the federation what would it do with all its new planets and people, and what would happen to the Starfleet men and women after they surrender and there ships.
tng era Starfleet
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Old April 2 2014, 05:41 PM   #2
DarthTom
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

^^ The Empire would enslave the population of all SF planets, assuming that a war had ensued prior to them winning. They may even erdicate the problem completely by dispatching the death star to major federation worlds and simply destory the plant.

Earth - the center of power for the federation would be a goner for sure.

The problem with the arguments about any fantasy conflict between the Empire and SF is that unlike SF and its leadership the Emperor has no moral dilemma with eradicating an entire population or even species to achieve his objectives whereas SF does.
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Old April 2 2014, 06:21 PM   #3
sojourner
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

The Federation is tiny compared to the Galactic Empire. It would absorb the member planets and barely notice. The Empire with Star Fleet technology at it's disposal would be a frightening prospect.
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Old April 2 2014, 06:48 PM   #4
DarthTom
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

sojourner wrote: View Post
The Federation is tiny compared to the Galactic Empire. It would absorb the member planets and barely notice. The Empire with Star Fleet technology at it's disposal would be a frightening prospect.
In fantasy conflicts between SF and the Empire people point out the historical truth that while the big guy [the Empire] would most likely win the initial war - eventually if SF personnel who were opposed to being, 'absorbed,' into the Empire were to employ terrorist tactics - they might make such an occupation over time not worth the effort.

Britain, in real life took the same approach with us in 1812. They had had enough. Ironically, we are learning the same lesson in Afghanistan today. Ain't it grand history repeats itself?
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Old April 2 2014, 07:51 PM   #5
Admiral2
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

Gerbil13 wrote: View Post
If the Empire(star wars) defeated the federation what would it do with all its new planets and people, and what would happen to the Starfleet men and women after they surrender and there ships.
tng era Starfleet
Whaddaya mean, "If"?



When the GALACTIC EMPIRE rolls out of the far-away galaxy and takes down the Federation, its peoples will be properly subjugated just like proper Imperial Worlds. Any planet that consistently defies Imperial rule will get Death Starred to death. Starfleet will be hunted down like dogs and pounded into space debris and its technology would be forgotten (because a dictatorship with miles-long battleships and moon-sized planet-destroying space stations doesn't need phasers and transporters).

The Romulans and Cardassians would be quick to join in on the fun, but the big winners would be the Ferengi, because the alpha quadrant would now have an economy based on capitalism and not communism or barter.
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Old April 2 2014, 08:07 PM   #6
Davros
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

I'm not seeing how the Empire would stand much of a chance against Star Fleet. The Empire's technology is far to primitive to be much of a threat to ships that fight at warp speed and have transporters.
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Old April 2 2014, 08:34 PM   #7
Enterprise1701
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

The Federation would use transwarp beaming to send bombs into imperial headquarters!!!!!




Just kidding, that's just a dumb Abramsverse fantasy.
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Old April 2 2014, 08:50 PM   #8
Admiral2
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

Davros wrote: View Post
I'm not seeing how the Empire would stand much of a chance against Star Fleet. The Empire's technology is far to primitive to be much of a threat to ships that fight at warp speed and have transporters.
Yes, most Trekkies live under this particular myth, mainly because they've never bothered to break the forces down. Short version: "Pretty" does not equal "more advanced."

In some cases there is actually technological parity between the forces. Starships have directed energy weapons. So do Star Destroyers. Starships have energy shields. So do Star Destroyers. Starships have torpedos (photon). So do Star Destroyers (proton).

The parity breaks down when you get to "Starships have Warp Drive," because Star Destroyers have Hyperdrive, which is a lot damn faster. (It kinda doesn't matter if you can fight at warp if your opponent is transiting a much higher dimension and on the other side of the galaxy before you can fire.) No "Warp 10 limits" or other such nonsense. Hyperdrive was "slipstream" long before anybody ever heard of the Borg.

Star Destroyers also have TIE Fighters, Bombers and Interceptors, numerous tactical craft flown by crazy pilots willing to throw themselves at the enemy in a swarm to do maximum damage. Starships have...runabouts.

Oh wait! but Starships have transporters, so they can just beam commandos with bombs everywhere and win that way, right? It shocks me every time a Trekkie rolls out this canard, given how many times in every series transporters have been jammed, malfunctioned or simply screwed up by things as innocuous as bad weather...and the supposition that the Empire is too stupid to figure that out and ramp up their R&D accordingly. It's a GALACTIC Empire. Galactic Empires are not created by morons.

Which brings me to one of the Empire's biggest advantages: Size. It isn't just that there are more ships, it's that the majority of those ships just dwarf even the biggest Starships. Even if you agree that starfleet's more advanced, a ship the size of a couple of football fields is still going to have its mass blown away faster than an opponent the size of Manhattan.

The biggest advantage? Mindset. Starfleet is run by scientists and diplomats who will only act as warriors in the most dire of circumstances, and they all think the bad guys can be talked out of those circumstances first. It's been said over and over: "Starfleet is not a military organization. Our misson is peaceful exploration."

The Imperial Armada suffers from no such identity crisis. They know who they are and what their goal is: Subjugation through Force of Arms. This is key, in any Empire/Federation match-up. To quote Thomas Sowell: "If the war for civilization comes down to the wimps versus the barbarians, the barbarians are going to win."

There is no contest. Empire wins, every time.
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Old April 2 2014, 09:32 PM   #9
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

^^^ Agreed on every point. However, as I said up-thread if Federation citizens were willing to become terrorists [bomb military installations, sabatoge energy facilities etc, the Empire may tire of the federation over time. Especially if the terrorism were to spread to Corozon [sp?] itself.
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Old April 2 2014, 09:58 PM   #10
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

What the hell is Corozon? or do you mean Coruscant?

regardless, the OP is positing what would happen after the federation is conquered, not if it can be. So any discussion of whether it can be done is sort of missing the point of the thread.
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Old April 2 2014, 10:56 PM   #11
ManOnTheWave
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

If the Federation fell to the Galactic Empire, the Empire would then have to contend with the Federation's less scrupulous neighbors, like the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Star Empire, the Cardassian Union, and possibly The Dominion. If those empires created a coalition early on, I have the feeling it would turn out a lot like the mirror universe in DS9 where humans end up slaves in a non human pan Galactic Empire.
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Old April 2 2014, 11:08 PM   #12
Davros
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Yes, most Trekkies live under this particular myth, mainly because they've never bothered to break the forces down. Short version: "Pretty" does not equal "more advanced."
It's not about "pretty" it's about one side having ships that maneuver and fight at FTL speeds are equipped with transporter and replicator technology.

In some cases there is actually technological parity between the forces. Starships have directed energy weapons. So do Star Destroyers. Starships have energy shields. So do Star Destroyers. Starships have torpedos (photon). So do Star Destroyers (proton).
Unless a Star Destroyer can hit something traveling at warp speed their weapons would be irrelevant.

The parity breaks down when you get to "Starships have Warp Drive," because Star Destroyers have Hyperdrive, which is a lot damn faster. (It kinda doesn't matter if you can fight at warp if your opponent is transiting a much higher dimension and on the other side of the galaxy before you can fire.)
The Falcon was mentioned by Solo as doing .5 past light speed and was considered a fast ship. Warp 2 beats that speed.

No "Warp 10 limits" or other such nonsense. Hyperdrive was "slipstream" long before anybody ever heard of the Borg.
If they cannot fight anything when they arrive at their destination

Star Destroyers also have TIE Fighters, Bombers and Interceptors, numerous tactical craft flown by crazy pilots willing to throw themselves at the enemy in a swarm to do maximum damage. Starships have...runabouts.
What are they going to throw themselves against at sub light speeds, and how effective would they be against deflector shields?

Oh wait! but Starships have transporters, so they can just beam commandos with bombs everywhere and win that way, right? It shocks me every time a Trekkie rolls out this canard, given how many times in every series transporters have been jammed, malfunctioned or simply screwed up by things as innocuous as bad weather...and the supposition that the Empire is too stupid to figure that out and ramp up their R&D accordingly. It's a GALACTIC Empire. Galactic Empires are not created by morons.
Star Fleet has RnD and the advantage of already understanding the technology.

Which brings me to one of the Empire's biggest advantages: Size. It isn't just that there are more ships, it's that the majority of those ships just dwarf even the biggest Starships. Even if you agree that starfleet's more advanced, a ship the size of a couple of football fields is still going to have its mass blown away faster than an opponent the size of Manhattan.
Size would be a disadvantage because it would take more energy to operate and maintain such ships. And since they wouldn't be able to hit the Federation ships they would just present easier targets.

The biggest advantage? Mindset. Starfleet is run by scientists and diplomats who will only act as warriors in the most dire of circumstances, and they all think the bad guys can be talked out of those circumstances first. It's been said over and over: "Starfleet is not a military organization. Our misson is peaceful exploration."
When they need to fight they are more than up to the challenge.

The Imperial Armada suffers from no such identity crisis. They know who they are and what their goal is: Subjugation through Force of Arms. This is key, in any Empire/Federation match-up. To quote Thomas Sowell: "If the war for civilization comes down to the wimps versus the barbarians, the barbarians are going to win."
Since when is the Federation wimps?

There is no contest. Empire wins, every time.
Not even close, Star Fleet would barely build up a sweat.
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Old April 4 2014, 12:41 AM   #13
SiddFinch1
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

Gotta love the never ending debates about imaginary technology which was never consistently written about in the 1st place
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Old April 4 2014, 04:19 AM   #14
Base_Delta_Zero
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

Imperial starships cross galactic-scale distances in days.

Federation starships can barely do so in under a century.

A single star destroyer has enough firepower to liquify a planet's surface down to the bedrock in hours.

That right there is enough to end the argument, unless you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "lalalalala-I can't hear you!"

A dozen star destroyers with their attendant escorts would hyper in, sweep aside whatever handful of tiny Star Fleet vessels happen to be in orbit at the time (Earth, capital of the Federation and HQ for Star Fleet, has been buttfucked numerous times by having NO Fleet assets in range to respond to warp speed threats, let alone on hand in-system for active defense against an enemy that appears instantly from out of another dimension), and annihilate every single Federation member world in under a week, all while the Enterprise and the rest of the fleet are flailing around trying to race from system to system at a relative snails pace, ringing their hands over the enormity of just how royally fucked they are.

You go ahead and form your magical alliance of every "major" power in the quadrant in under a week. Hell, toss in the Borg and the Dominion, too. Why not? They'll all die the same way - isolated and alone, unable to reinforce one another fast enough with vessels that couldn't stand up to a single broadside from mile long bringers of directed energy death.

The Dominion are a joke. The Founders homeworld would fall to an alpha strike the moment they signed up for tickets on the Federation's space train to extinction. Their ketracel- white refineries would go next. Not that it would matter, since they'd be 70 years or so from coming to the Federation's aid.

Even the Borg, who consistently faceroll entire fleets of Federation ships with a single cube, still succumb to massed firepower eventually. A star destroyer is the definition of massed fire power. And their transwarp hub was knocked out, so they'd be hoofing it the long way to the Alpha Quadrant, too.

Finally, the Empire has no need of the resources from our galaxy or of its peoples as subjects. This galactic-scale Armageddon would merely be a training exercise for the Imperial Fleet in how to put down primitives. There would be no ground invasion, because the massive combined arms force sitting on the star destroyers would be too busy playing sabaac to rapid deploy from orbit and curbstomp a bunch of space communists running around in their pjs with small arms when the Fleet gunners are just going to vaporize them along with every other man woman and child on-world.

There would be no resistance movement hiding among civilians and striking out like terrorists. There would be no time to organize such a resistance and no place from which to strike. The only thing that might slow the Imperials down would be their weapons overheating from the number of worlds they'd be constantly immolating.

The Rebellion was a match for the Empire because they were at the same tech level and the Imperials couldn't easily either technically or politically slag every world that harbored them, although the Death Stars existence showed the Emperor planned to do just that eventually. There would be no such restrictions facing aliens from another galaxy.

I'd suggest giving Q a call, because space magic is about the only hope the Federation has of not becoming a footnote in some Imperial Fleet Admiral's personal log, right next to the reminder to his mess chief to secure another of those increasingly rare bottles of Romulan Ale for tomorrow's dinner service.

*drops mic*
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Old April 4 2014, 04:58 AM   #15
sojourner
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Re: If the Federation lost to the Galactic Empire

Base_Delta_Zero wrote: View Post

A single star destroyer has enough firepower to liquify a planet's surface down to the bedrock in hours.
So could the TOS Enterprise.
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