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Old November 8 2011, 07:10 PM   #271
Cary L. Brown
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Location: Austin, Texas
Re: TOS Nacelles

I can see the indicator bars as well.
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Old November 8 2011, 08:36 PM   #272
Patrickivan
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Re: TOS Nacelles

I always thought they were just nonesense to suggest movement in a specific direction... I mean, even in universe, I never thought there was any point in making note of them because time seemed to go all TARDISy when people got in a TL.
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Old November 8 2011, 09:00 PM   #273
Cary L. Brown
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
I always thought they were just nonesense to suggest movement in a specific direction... I mean, even in universe, I never thought there was any point in making note of them because time seemed to go all TARDISy when people got in a TL.
True, true... you had guys standing behind there waving flourescent tubes past the frosted window, and they were likely working at "scale."

This is one of those things that we can "mostly ignore." Except, if they're not there, you can assume that the car isn't moving, and if they are there, it's moving SOMEHOW... but you can't really determine where it's going by how the guy behind there is waving his magic wand...
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Old November 8 2011, 09:17 PM   #274
Patrickivan
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Stupid unions... If it wasn't for them, we'd have had cooler bridge displays! Okay- sorry- let's not go there.


I was thinking about that episode (Spock's Brain was it?) where Kirk talked to Scotty about the potential of engines being the size of walnuts, and about the initial concept drawings of the Enterprise noting that the nacelles were the "power units", and about the evidence in the episodes stating that the nacelles were the matter-antimatter reactors, and all of that really solidifies that the Enterprise's engines were indeed in the nacelles. Regardless of other sources of ship power or not, all of that makes it more likely then not to be something we should be able to agree on. The nacelles contained the primary source of power for the warp drive at the minimum, and the ship as a whole at the most.

Big was synomous with power in the 60's. Those big massive nacelles generated a huge amount of energy needed to travel faster then light! The power was dangerous and was kept from the ship. It almost seemed like the warp drive was less technologically advanced then the power generation due to how much was apparently needed. It just screams raw harnessed power when you think about it. You look at the Enterprise in a whole new way when you think of those massive units generating such power!
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Old November 8 2011, 10:08 PM   #275
Captain Robert April
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Re: TOS Nacelles

All this from Jimmy Rugg on the other side of the wall with a spinning coffee can on a stick with a light inside, shining through a slit in the side of the can.
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Old November 8 2011, 10:48 PM   #276
Cary L. Brown
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
All this from Jimmy Rugg on the other side of the wall with a spinning coffee can on a stick with a light inside, shining through a slit in the side of the can.
Yep... but are you sure it's a coffee can? I mean, that would work for vertical movement, potentially, but for horizontal? That would be one BIG coffee can! (probably to go along with that big twinkie...)
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Old November 9 2011, 03:16 AM   #277
7thsealord
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
I was thinking about that episode (Spock's Brain was it?) where Kirk talked to Scotty about the potential of engines being the size of walnuts,
'Return To Tomorrow', actually.
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Old November 9 2011, 03:44 AM   #278
Albertese
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
All this from Jimmy Rugg on the other side of the wall with a spinning coffee can on a stick with a light inside, shining through a slit in the side of the can.
Yep... but are you sure it's a coffee can? I mean, that would work for vertical movement, potentially, but for horizontal? That would be one BIG coffee can! (probably to go along with that big twinkie...)
I'm pretty sure CRA is right about this one. When the lift started moving perpendicularly from it's last direction, he just rotated the can to shine the other direction. Don't worry about the width of the beam; an 8" high coffee can with a slot in the side and a light in the middle should be able to cast a line of light several feet long if held a couple feet away from the screen. If my "back of a notecard" calculations are correct, if you hold the can a foot from the outer wall, the shine would be about two feet long, more than enough for the turbolift indicator.

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Old November 9 2011, 08:39 AM   #279
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Re: TOS Nacelles

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
We only saw 5 lines go by and for the duration of the conversation the motion indicator showed no more motion. I could not tell if Spock was holding one of the handles or not. Otherwise what is inconsistent with this scene again?
Wrong.

If you'd actually watched the scene, you would know that the motion indicator is no longer on camera once five lines go by. After that, for the rest of the scene in the elevator, the camera alternates between close-ups of Spock and of the Romulan commander. Once it starts up, the elevator-in-motion sound is clearly audible for the whole scene, until it winds down at the end. But now I am just repeating myself.

Why don't we move on to disagreeing about something else? I'm sure in the course of further discussion about nacelles, we will have plenty of opportunity for honest disagreement.
Upon re-watching the DVD I can confirm that you are correct in that the motion indicator is no longer visible after the 5th line moves by. The time that the turbolift begins movement where we see the 5 lines is about 7-8s. The camera changes and for 49s up to the sound of the turbolift stopping we are not able to see what the turbolift is doing via the motion indicator. Oddly, none of the handles were held/touched in the turbolift.

For comparison, 2 episodes earlier in "Elaan of Troyius", Kirk takes a turbolift from the bridge to Deck 5. From the start of motion down till where the motion indicator stops moving is 25s. 9s transpires where there is a lull (no motion) before the horizontal lines starts up indicating a lateral motion which goes on for 27s (with a side conversation with Scotty) before stopping. The turbolift door remains closed for another 13s while Kirk and Elaan talk. Kirk is holding the lift handle nearest the door/intercom more or less the entire time.

Still, we are left with in "The Enterprise Incident" a period of time where we have no idea what the turbolift is doing other than being powered up (because we can't see the motion indicator).

So what is inconsistent with this scene again? Is it that you felt that they shouldn't be standing around in the turbolift for 50s having a private conversation and should have exited and talked in the corridor?
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Old November 9 2011, 11:14 AM   #280
CorporalCaptain
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Re: TOS Nacelles

In The Enterprise Incident, it doesn't make sense for Deck Two to be the deck immediately below the bridge. It's just too implausible.
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Old November 9 2011, 11:22 AM   #281
Patrickivan
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Re: TOS Nacelles

7thsealord wrote: View Post
Patrickivan wrote: View Post
I was thinking about that episode (Spock's Brain was it?) where Kirk talked to Scotty about the potential of engines being the size of walnuts,
'Return To Tomorrow', actually.
Thanks- I just couldn't remember, so I pulled a name out of the bottom of my whisky glass.
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Old November 9 2011, 12:03 PM   #282
7thsealord
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
7thsealord wrote: View Post
Patrickivan wrote: View Post
I was thinking about that episode (Spock's Brain was it?) where Kirk talked to Scotty about the potential of engines being the size of walnuts,
'Return To Tomorrow', actually.
Thanks- I just couldn't remember, so I pulled a name out of the bottom of my whisky glass.
Probably the most likely time to think of 'Spock's Brain'.
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Old November 9 2011, 02:10 PM   #283
Timo
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Re: TOS Nacelles

In The Enterprise Incident, it doesn't make sense for Deck Two to be the deck immediately below the bridge. It's just too implausible.
Yet everything speaks for Deck 2 being exactly there. Beyond the obvious, the upper decks are traditionally the ones likely to hold officer/luxury accommodation. The shape of the Enterprise superstructure rather favors this idea as well, and Probert's redesign of the ship for ST:TMP places officer accommodation and VIP amenities right there. The turbolift system isn't likely to be handling any other traffic from the bridge at the time, and Spock's journey with the Commander is the centerpiece of attention; the lowest Ensign there would know not to disturb the two while they take their time rearranging interstellar politics. At most a lift from the lower decks might start honking a horn - but the system probably allows for cabins to pass each other. Spock holding the cab immobile is not just plausible, but would have been dramatically highly likely to occur regardless of the length of the turbolift trip.

FWIW, five lights per deck is probably a pretty good average of the visual evidence. You don't get a vertical ride longer than six or seven decks in that ship, and IIRC the highest count of lights (in a scene with cuts, but probably without much "lost time") is around thirty.

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Old November 9 2011, 02:16 PM   #284
CorporalCaptain
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Re: TOS Nacelles

Dude, it's not just the five lights. It's a ride which lasts a whole minute. To go down one deck? Forget it. It's an error. Like I said, we'll never agree, so let's just agree to disagree, and move on. OK??

P.S. What are guest quarters doing on deck two anyway? That's rhetorical by the way, so please don't answer. Kirk was not being euphemistic about giving her quarters.
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Old November 9 2011, 02:22 PM   #285
Timo
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Re: TOS Nacelles

What better place for them? It's not as if the ship is a VIP shuttle by design; the facilities are probably for a visiting admiral or other commanding personality (and may have alternate uses at other times). Having them next to the bridge is what navies of today (or at least yesterday) would do. It's not a situation that would need much explaining; it's something Probert ended up with, too, because it's the natural way to go.

(And if I understand your euphemism comment correctly, no, those aren't Spock's quarters, or else Spock would leave the lift with the Commander and enter the quarters. That is, if Kirk did use that euphemism, he'd also be indirectly ordering Spock to bed the gal there and then.)

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