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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 24 2011, 11:39 PM   #181
CaptainMatt
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

TOS movies are generally better recieved, in my opinion, due to their sense of family and themes of friendship and loyalty that TNG-as films,mind you-seldom were able to convey in quite the same way.
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Old December 26 2011, 06:25 AM   #182
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

Well...

I won't say ANY of the ST movies I watched suck. Won't do it, because they all did have redeeming qualities.

TMP: Return to what we like to see. We see that Captain Kirk is infallible after all, and the obsession with his ship is still left over from TOS. Interesting storyline between Decker (another throwback to TOS 'Doomsday Machine' and Illia. We see McCoy essentially unchanged, and Spock who tries to be fully logical, can't do it, because that's not all what he is. Only thing I really didn't like was the plot twist of 'Voyager VI -V'ger' (By the way, interesting that the TOS movies were six movies; weird coincidence) Grade: B

TWOK: One of my favorites of the series. We see Kirk getting older, Kobiashi Maru, return of Khan. Genesis device is an interesting thing to base the story on, as well as the discovery that Kirk has a son. Great action sequences, lots of drama, humor. Shatner in particular does some of his best Kirk here. Some parts of the movie were hokey when they shouldn't have been, such as the death scene of Scotty's nephew (which was made up Scotty afterward, saying how proud he was of his nephew that he never left his post). Spock's death scene was well done. Grade: B+

TSFS: I got to admit, it seemed like this movie was made to allow Spock back into the franchise. Why the hell would Kirk shoot his body onto a planet without consulting Starfleet or the planet Vulcan? I still like it, how McCoy endured having two minds, Kirk choosing to hijack a ship, Christopher Lloyd as a Klingon, Kirk's son dying, it was all pretty good. Seeing the Enterprise destroyed achieved its desired effect. It was pretty well done. Grade: B

TVH: Most popular movie in the series. Has a kids feel, very non-violent, more along the lines of a classical science fiction tale. Good acting all around. Not my particular favorite, but hey, good movie. Well... the whole 'alien ship talking to whales thing' was a bit hokey, but hey, this is Star Trek, and hokey is just part of the game. Grade: B

TFF: Well... I can say I can see why a lot of people dislike this movie. It's not my particular favorite. But, it does have redeeming qualities...Barely. Sybok is Spock's half-brother. OK, cool. They are on an adventure to meet God.... OK. At least the story has an element of sense. Uhura dancing in the desert? Horseback riding? The humor in this movie wasn't very good. But again, there were some good elements, such as Uhura wanting to get in Scotty's pants (that was fairly humorous), and Sybok exploring the 'Threes' pain, especially for McCoy, who gave euthanasia to his father. But these are merely flyspecks on an otherwise VERY mediocre movie. And that's being polite. Grade: C

TUC: This movie felt... different. I thought it was pretty well done and a good way to send out the TOS crew. Great storyline, showing Kirk's continued hatred for Klingons. We see Spock inflict torture on someone (on a fellow Vulcan, no less) Good pacing, good movie. Grade: B+

I've only watched 'Generations' and First Contact with the TNG series, they were pretty good. Didn't like the Borg Queen thing, but I suppose they had to do something different with the Borg. They were OK.
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Old December 27 2011, 03:12 AM   #183
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

I feel that the makers of the Next Generation films possibly thought anything they did would make lots of money as TNG the series was such a ratings hit, surely any set of films based on that would be just as widely recieved.
Only, generally speaking, they were not that well recieved.
Maybe they thought any old idea would work and they lost some of their creativity. Regardless it cost them in the end.
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Old December 27 2011, 04:36 AM   #184
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

TerragonSix wrote: View Post
Well...

ITSFS: I got to admit, it seemed like this movie was made to allow Spock back into the franchise. Why the hell would Kirk shoot his body onto a planet without consulting Starfleet or the planet Vulcan?
It seems he put Khan and company on a planet and never consulted Starfleet.
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Old December 27 2011, 06:48 AM   #185
AFEK ESLCAFE W
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

The TOS films came out better than the TNG films probably due to the fact that they were produced at a time when there was less studio meddling with the former than the latter.
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Old December 27 2011, 11:20 PM   #186
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

They do appear to be open-ended questions, Kirk not consulting Starfleet about stranding Khan in "Space Seed" or sending Spock's body into deep space.
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Old December 28 2011, 12:44 AM   #187
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
They do appear to be open-ended questions, Kirk not consulting Starfleet about stranding Khan in "Space Seed" or sending Spock's body into deep space.
Starfleet had to have known about Khan and that he was deposited on Ceti Alpha V. There were mission logs and Kirk was missing the ships historian.

Captain's Log. Stardate 3143.3. Control of the Enterprise has been regained. I wish my next decisions were no more difficult. Khan and his people. What a waste to put them in a reorientation centre. And what do I do about McGivers?
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Old December 28 2011, 08:29 PM   #188
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

This is one of the things I liked about TOS, that Starfleet was there, but far enough away that Kirk didn't have to check in with them all the time. This was his call to make, and he let them know what he decided.
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Old December 29 2011, 12:20 AM   #189
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

BillJ wrote: View Post
CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
They do appear to be open-ended questions, Kirk not consulting Starfleet about stranding Khan in "Space Seed" or sending Spock's body into deep space.
Starfleet had to have known about Khan and that he was deposited on Ceti Alpha V. There were mission logs and Kirk was missing the ships historian.

Captain's Log. Stardate 3143.3. Control of the Enterprise has been regained. I wish my next decisions were no more difficult. Khan and his people. What a waste to put them in a reorientation centre. And what do I do about McGivers?

Point recieved and understood, Bill.
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Old December 31 2011, 06:47 AM   #190
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

22 Stars wrote: View Post
This is one of the things I liked about TOS, that Starfleet was there, but far enough away that Kirk didn't have to check in with them all the time. This was his call to make, and he let them know what he decided.
That was one of the interesting things about the new movie. There were several...questionable decisions the characters made during the film, but it harkened back to TOS.
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Old January 8 2012, 03:37 AM   #191
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

22 Stars wrote: View Post
This is one of the things I liked about TOS, that Starfleet was there, but far enough away that Kirk didn't have to check in with them all the time. This was his call to make, and he let them know what he decided.
As opposed to Picard, who had to check in every 5 minutes.
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Old January 8 2012, 06:27 AM   #192
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

Subspace communication works on the same principle as warp speed- whatever the plot demands.
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Old January 8 2012, 06:49 AM   #193
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

Majority of the TOS movies were made with the belief that each film would be the last one. I believe Leonard Nimoy said something to that extent in one of the dvd interviews on the movies. The TOS films put alot of thought into making their movies as entertaining as they could with what they were given.

If you look at the TNG movies, they seem to be made with the premise that they'll always have another one to do. While it wasn't totally unfeasible for TNG to make more than 4 movies. Berman put all his eggs in the VOY basket. VOY being billed as the "next TNG". Recent interviews with Marina Sirits, Levar Burton, Johnathan Frakes, Brent Spiner and Rick Berman they all say that Paramount wanted the TNG films to end at Insurrection an wasn't interested in another TNG film. Berman was able to talk them into making Nemesis but the fan base wasn't paying attention and it didn't make a profit at the BO. Had Nemesis been successful we would've had a 5th TNG film. DS9 was fantastic but didn't make as big a return as Paramount wanted. VOY copied as much of TNG as they could but was still hemorrhaging ratings. The franchise was stalling. If Berman hadn't set up DS9 and VOY to compete alongside the film series, the TNG movies could've been better.
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Old January 9 2012, 06:58 PM   #194
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

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If Berman hadn't set up DS9 and VOY to compete alongside the film series, the TNG movies could've been better.
He didn't. The studio did. Berman was adamantly opposed to creating Voyager at the time they did. He felt that the mantle should be passed from TNG to DS9 so that there would be one TV series on the air and one film series running, as had been done successfully for many years. He felt that creating another spinoff at the time was making one too many trips to the well and would end badly.

And he was right.

Unfortunately, Paramount overruled him and told him basically that there was going to be another Trek series with or without him. Faced with that, he gave in and joined with Piller and Taylor to create Voyager.
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Old January 9 2012, 07:00 PM   #195
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

CoveSanta wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
If Berman hadn't set up DS9 and VOY to compete alongside the film series, the TNG movies could've been better.
He didn't. The studio did. Berman was adamantly opposed to creating Voyager at the time they did. He felt that the mantle should be passed from TNG to DS9 so that there would be one TV series on the air and one film series running, as had been done successfully for many years. He felt that creating another spinoff at the time was making one too many trips to the well and would end badly.

And he was right.

Unfortunately, Paramount overruled him and told him basically that there was going to be another Trek series with or without him. Faced with that, he gave in and joined with Piller and Taylor to create Voyager.
Yep. As usual, Berman gets more blame than he deserves. He made some mistakes, but not nearly as many as some people think.
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