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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old September 22 2011, 01:50 AM   #16
Kai Winn
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Solarbaby wrote: View Post
I loved threshold and don't see why it's so hated.
There is always the fear that scientific and technological progress might backfire, at the moment feel many people that nucular power is not quite safe, or the Hadron collider might produce baddies which consume the planet. Usually makes a good story in SF. Would have been better if this flight had produced an anomaly like in All Good Things.
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Old September 22 2011, 01:53 AM   #17
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

I agree with Braga's reasoning for adding Seven and I did not object at all to losing Kes. Both my wife and I laughed our asses off at seeing Janeway and Paris as "Fish People" - catfish, mudfish, salamanders - or whatever the hell they were.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:30 AM   #18
Guy Gardener
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

The Dominion wrote: View Post
Kim really should have gone instead of Kes. I don't know how they would have fit Seven and Kes in together though.
How about in a single cot?

You might not think there's room but Jennifer is tiny.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:31 AM   #19
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

The Dominion wrote: View Post
Kim really should have gone instead of Kes. I don't know how they would have fit Seven and Kes in together though.

I think that would be "obvious".

http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/...s_startled.jpg



http://www.startreklibrary.com/VOY/images/7of9.jpg

Goodbye Neelix/Kes.

Hello Kes/Seven.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:56 AM   #20
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

The Dominion wrote: View Post
Kim really should have gone instead of Kes. I don't know how they would have fit Seven and Kes in together though.
Kes was a feminine, gentle soul. Seven was the opposite.
The stories and interactions that coulda come out of that would have been much more interesting and deep than Harry having the hots for Seven and sometimes embarrassing himself sitcom style.
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Old September 22 2011, 03:45 AM   #21
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Seven was soulless. (in the Beginning)

That's neutral.

It was B'Elanna who was the opposite of Kes,

A constant monstrous rebellious contentious firey explosion of emotion and passion thrashing against everything.

(in the beginning)

Everyone homogenized quick enough.
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Old September 22 2011, 04:55 AM   #22
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Seven was a great concept for a character, but she was sabotaged with the idiotic catsuit. That undermined any credibility she might have had as a real character and just made her an object and a smutty joke.

The right way to do a character like that is to envision her being a male character. The core of the character shouldn't be sexual, since that's not the core of the Borg. The core of the Borg is that they represent a threat to individual human identity, and that is certainly more than enough for some great stories. So if you want to cast a woman in the role, fine, if she's really the best actor of all the ones you audition. But gender shouldn't be on the casting sheet.

Kes just didn't have the dramatic oomph that any Borg, male or female, would have brought to the show. In retrospect, a male Borg character would have been better, if only because there would have been less temptation to turn the character into a joke. But if the producers had shown some good taste and restraint, there's no reason Jeri Ryan couldn't have been perfectly good as well.

Threshold
was a decent enough idea for a show, and hey, it had a actor that turned out to be an Emmy winner! So someone in the casting dept was on the ball anyway.
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Old September 22 2011, 05:24 AM   #23
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

^^Which actor are you talking about?
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Old September 22 2011, 05:33 AM   #24
You_Will_Fail
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

They won an emmy for visual effects or something not acting.
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Old September 22 2011, 06:31 AM   #25
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

if we're talking about awards... Here's what I don't understand... If Star Trek First Contact lost the Academy award to "the Nutty Professor II the Clumps" why then did they take to heart all those Borg props and Borg wardrobe when they should have just been making fatsuits for alternate versions of the characters played by the same actors for some colossal "Mirror War"?
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Old September 24 2011, 10:16 PM   #26
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Agree with him, SOMETIMES.

http://www.trektoday.com/content/201...ne/#more-12919

Threshold WASN'T the height of trek tv-dom, and Seven was (IMO) a great addition to the show.

Anyone else want to weigh in?
No, it doesn't make you a bad person.

But it won't change my opinion about Braga.

I give him all credit for his work with TNG and the first seasons of Voyager. But I will never forgive him for "Fury" and the destruction of Kes.

I didn't like how Kes was dumped in season 4 and honestly I don't think that Seven added that much to the show. In fact, Voyager already had nine very good characters so I see no reason to bring in another one.

But "Fury" was the main insult and the main reason why I don't like Braga.
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Old September 24 2011, 10:49 PM   #27
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

"Threshold" is a guilty pleasure I must admit. I liked Seven fine when she was introduced although I think they wrecked her character in the second half of Season 7. I do wish they didn't get rid of Kes though. It would have been fun to see how the two interacted.
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Old September 24 2011, 11:22 PM   #28
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Threshold is a fine sci fi story and then it goes loopy. However it's a loopiness that is pretty funny and while dumb it certainly was not boring. To me a really bad is ep is either incredibly boring or portrays the people very out of character in a way that is grating to watch. I can think of only one bit of VOY that grated on me like that and it was in an otherwise awesome ep.
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Old September 24 2011, 11:41 PM   #29
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Personally I like Threshold. Yes I can see why people don't like it and theres aspects in it in which I cringe, but overall it definitely has enough humour in it to make me like it.

I was sad when Kes left but I agree with her need to go, she wasn't a particularly interesting character and didn't hold that much fascination and importance in the series. So when Seven came to the show I instantly liked her, she brought a spark to the show and sped up its course and gave way to new and exciting plots with the borg encounters and such.

However I am finding that though important to introduce her to the show by incorporating her into a lot of the episodes heavily, it seems as though they have seemed to forget about the rest of the cast as they seem to be included more in the background of the episodes. But I'm only half way through season 5, I guess that may change as I watch more. But either way Seven has made a fantastic addition to the show.

But when watching earlier seasons of Voyager with Kes in it, I instantly feel a sense of longing for her back because I miss her. So I do love both characters.
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Old September 24 2011, 11:56 PM   #30
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Seven was a great concept for a character, but she was sabotaged with the idiotic catsuit. That undermined any credibility she might have had as a real character and just made her an object and a smutty joke.

The right way to do a character like that is to envision her being a male character. The core of the character shouldn't be sexual, since that's not the core of the Borg.
The core of 7 was NOT sexual. Just because she was in a catsuit doesn't make HER a sexual person. I think that is made pretty clear right from the beginning. They may have planned out a sexy addition to VOY to sex it up but what they got was a highly developed intellectual character who fulfilled the Spock role. Any sexy qualities she had as a person were also kin to the Spock role (the struggle with humanity and emotions, who can open this person up etc..)

The character was far bigger than what she was presented as being initially thanks to great writing and great acting. They wanted sexy but what they got was one of the most developed characters in Star Trek and one that epitomized some of the deepest Trek themes.
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