Dexter

[Technobuilder]

spinnerlys wrote:

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Yes, he killed at least two innocent persons, one in series 3 and one in series 5.
The first one was an accident, and the second one was out of misguided rage.

Admittedly no one is perfect and people make mistakes, so if you're killing people at all, and you make a "mistake" that's kind of quasi-normal (in again, a very odd messed up sort of way). I'm not saying he's without his sins, but good guys aren't prone to perfection either. Besides, calling those two "innocent" is probably a little generous.

[Deckerd]

The first two seasons were the best. Then it lost its oomph and never got it back. It's a shame. Possum (or Locutus, I can't remember which) said the character had to develop but I disagree. A sociopath doesn't really develop. They are effectively disabled.

[Agent Richard07]

RoJoHen wrote:

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I found the first season to be incredibly boring and predictable. I stopped watching about 8 episodes in. I tell people that, and they can't wrap their heads around it because they all love it. Maybe it gets better, but I was so underwhelmed with what I had seen that I don't care enough to find out.

I probably would have said the same at that point. The show didn't change, but my attitude did as I went on. I don't know if that would happen for you if you don't like Dexter himself though.

auntiehill wrote:

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I enjoy the gruesome humor, the office politics, and the fact that a serial killer is also a "vigilante hero" of sorts.

"Vigilante" is a good word. I thought the same thing a few seasons in. He was like a superhero without a costume.

LitmusDragon wrote:

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I think the genius of the show is that they've made the Dexter character so sympathetic. I never expected to be rooting for a serial killer.

Technobuilder wrote:

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I never expected to be pondering a rationalization for why a serial killer that kills serial killers (and other general baddies) could be in his own odd way a good and in fact decent person.

Yeah, I think it's the writing, the right tone and the fact that we've gotten to really know Dexter, something we don't usually get with other bad guys.

auntiehill wrote:

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I think this show only had a one season left in it....two at the most. It should probably wrap up soon. I'm not sure how they could possibly end this and have it feel satisfactory...but I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

I read that the show has been renewed through season 7 and that there are no current plans for the show to end. I hope it doesn't go the way of House and get stale. It hasn't gotten that way for me just yet. Sure it's repeating itself with serial killer after serial killer or someone new coming into Dexter's life, but none of that has gotten old for me yet.

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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I think there's a vibe to S1 that they didn't successfully continue in subsequent seasons, mainly the notion that Dexter is a truly scary and dangerous person, who could be seduced to become a "bad" sort of serial killer. Instead, the show has been flirting with the notion that Dexter could in theory be reformed, which I think would be a betrayal of the show's premise.

I noticed that at the end of season 5 when Lumen was cured. There was some suggestion that Dexter could be rid of his Dark Passenger. Up until then, this "dark passenger" seemed like just a cute word for his need to kill instead of a "thing" he could get rid of. I was indifferent toward this idea until you mentioned it, but the more I think about it, the more I find myself not minding this development. There's a prevailing belief that negative traits aren't part of the real person, but instead, are things that "possess" us and can be vanquished, so I don't mind that the show touched on this. I don't know how I'd want to see it played out though.

S5 - eh, didn't care for it. Dexter in full meltdown would have been far more gripping.

I'd say he was too shut down to really go ballistic.

S6 - I've decided that this show is no longer worth shelling out for Showtime, so it's back to Netflix DVDs for me. Maybe if S6 turns out to be back to form, I'll relent and start subscribing again, but they have to win me back. No more pulling punches. I also hope they aren't going to try to drag this story out so long that it loses its oomph and turns into a procedural.

I thought about watching weekly, but I don't think I will. I like being able to run through a full season in a few days.

I also was amazed to learn they shoot the show in LA. Much of the housing (and of course the beaches) looks very similar in both cities, but I had no idea there were wetlands/swampy areas around LA that could sub for Florida.

The swampy wetlands were the first thing I thought of too. Now I'm trying to think back, wondering if they dressed up some of the shooting locations with the right flora.

timothy wrote:

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I don't know how many here have tried the books but there awesome.

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Also, the book plotlines go in wildly different directions from the TV show, not necessarily good ones.

I haven't read the novels, but I read that...

Doakes gets his limbs and tongue cut off. If that's the case, then his death on the show was a much more humane way to go.

Deckerd wrote:

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The first two seasons were the best. Then it lost its oomph and never got it back. It's a shame. Possum (or Locutus, I can't remember which) said the character had to develop but I disagree. A sociopath doesn't really develop. They are effectively disabled.

I don't think they're completely disabled. There's always something in there and we saw that come out from time to time. I noticed that a lot of his development as a more compassionate person came about when Rita and the kids became more entrenched in his life. Plus, he's always had some of that humanity when it came to his sister and colleagues.

[Temis the Vorta]

Deckerd wrote:

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The first two seasons were the best. Then it lost its oomph and never got it back. It's a shame. Possum (or Locutus, I can't remember which) said the character had to develop but I disagree. A sociopath doesn't really develop. They are effectively disabled.

Dexter does need to progress to some sort of conclusion, either a bad ending (he's finally caught/commits suicide/goes out in a blaze of glory) or a happy one (he's cured or he becomes accepted by people he cares about - Deb, the kids - and continues his serial killing after the final credits roll).

I hate the idea of a bad ending for Dex but for him to be cured would be a betrayal of the premise. That leaves acceptance as the best ending for the show, basically some modified version of Dexter's rather grandiose fantasy of walking in full sunlight, from the final scenes of S1:

[Random_Spock]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Dexter does need to progress to some sort of conclusion, either a bad ending (he's finally caught/commits suicide/goes out in a blaze of glory) or a happy one (he's cured or he becomes accepted by people he cares about - Deb, the kids - and continues his serial killing after the final credits roll).

I hate the idea of a bad ending for Dex but for him to be cured would be a betrayal of the premise. That leaves acceptance as the best ending for the show, basically some modified version of Dexter's rather grandiose fantasy of walking in full sunlight, from the final scenes of S1:

Me too. I wasn't a huge fan of s5 myself, but there were bits and pieces of it that were ok.

Agreed. If he ever became normal, so to speak, it wouldn't really make any real sense. His dark passenger is a part of him, and has been there so long, that would he even be able to survive without it?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

spinnerlys wrote:

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Yes, he killed at least two innocent persons, one in series 3 and one in series 5.
The first one was an accident, and the second one was out of misguided rage.

And how did he react? From what I have read about this show, Dexter is not capable of remorse. Is that right?

[Agent Richard07]

The whole letting go of his Dark Passenger bit will probably be dropped along with everything else they dropped.

I don't know how I'd want the show to end, but I think that getting caught would be especially bad for the kids. They've been through enough. First, they had a prison dad who is killed, then mom is mudered right in their house, then their stepdad turns out to be a serial killer? That's too much. I think the show could end with him just accepting that being a serial killer is the life for him.

[timothy]

all ways loved the season one ending. I think he married the actress who played his sister right after that.

[46379.1]

timothy wrote:

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all ways loved the season one ending. I think he married the actress who played his sister right after that.

And they divorced right after the last season ended....

[auntiehill]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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And how did he react? From what I have read about this show, Dexter is not capable of remorse. Is that right?

No, not at all. Dexter *thinks* he is incapable of remorse, but we can see in his reactions that he is indeed remorseful about breaking the code. He worries that his son will grow up "damaged" by him; he feels terrible guilt about what happens to Rita. He frequently describes himself as an unfeeling monster, but he worries about his sister, his son, etc. I think it makes Dexter even more interesting---he is BOTH a monster and a nice guy at the same time.

[Temis the Vorta]

The key to Dexter (on the TV show, not so much in the novels) is that he has all the usual human emotions and sense of morality. He deals with his childhood trauma and the resulting urges to kill by creating a self-image that he is a "monster." If he just accepts he is evil, then he doesn't need to be troubled or torn by it. A monster doesn't have emotion or morals.

See how that works? It's the way he manages to cope with the impossible contradictions of his mentality. But it just a lie he tells himself in order to survive. So one possible ending for the story is if Dexter starts to finally be honest with himself, but I'm not certain that any person could actually deal with that. How can you continue to murder people, yet be fully in touch with your emotions and moral sense? That's a level of crazy even Dex is incapable of.

[Temis the Vorta]

46379.1 wrote:

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And they divorced right after the last season ended....

Yeah, wtf is up with that? If I was married to Michael C. Hall, as God is my witness, you wouldn't be able to pry me off with a crowbar.

[Dream]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Yeah, wtf is up with that? If I was married to Michael C. Hall, as God is my witness, you wouldn't be able to pry me off with a crowbar.

There was a rumor going around that Michael C Hall and Julia Stiles (Lumen) were getting a little too friendly onset. Fans were wondering if she had anything to do with the breakup. This is why people shouldn't date those that they work with.

It has got to be so awkward working with your Ex after a breakup.

[Agent Richard07]

^ I was so absorbed in the show that I pretty much never thought about Hall's cancer or him being married to his TV sister.

Anyway, I read the season 5 thread and it looks like a lot of people had high expectations that didn't pan out, from Quinn becoming the next Doakes to Deb finding out about Dexter. Some interesting speculation and commentary there.

As for Deb and her never suspecting anything, I don't find it odd that she hasn't caught on as an adult, but I have wondered why she didn't notice anything out of the ordinary when she and Dexter were growing up.

- Another season 5 point... I thought that Dexter throwing the computer into the water near the van was a dumb move.

- Another general point... Geoff Pierson: I used to get him mixed up with James Remar, so I get a kick out of both of them being on the show.

[Deckerd]

Random_Spock wrote:

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Me too. I wasn't a huge fan of s5 myself, but there were bits and pieces of it that were ok.

Agreed. If he ever became normal, so to speak, it wouldn't really make any real sense. His dark passenger is a part of him, and has been there so long, that would he even be able to survive without it?

I don't know if you've read the book Hannibal by Thomas Harris but he effectively neutralised Hannibal Lecter by making him become more or less normal at the end of the story. It was a huge betrayal IMO. Apart from that the story was shite anyway.