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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 15 2011, 09:54 PM   #1381
AviTrek
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
captrek wrote: View Post
Rudolph the Red Nosed Vulcan wrote: View Post
PAL regions run at 50Hz electricity, 50 fields per second which equates to 25 fps on PAL TVs. Rather than the maths that makes 24 go into 30, it's far more convenient to just display the extra frame every second. Of course some people do use all sorts of magic, 2:3 pulldown and whatnot to make 24 go into 25, but that results in blended frames, judder, and ghosting, but maintains the original runtime and the correct audio pitch, whereas native 25 fps is smooth, but runs 4% faster than NTSC, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch.
Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.
Isn't all of that no problem anymore since blurays are natively 24 fps?
Correct, which is why the PAL audience will see the correct speed for the first time with this process.
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Old December 15 2011, 09:58 PM   #1382
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
captrek wrote: View Post
Rudolph the Red Nosed Vulcan wrote: View Post
PAL regions run at 50Hz electricity, 50 fields per second which equates to 25 fps on PAL TVs. Rather than the maths that makes 24 go into 30, it's far more convenient to just display the extra frame every second. Of course some people do use all sorts of magic, 2:3 pulldown and whatnot to make 24 go into 25, but that results in blended frames, judder, and ghosting, but maintains the original runtime and the correct audio pitch, whereas native 25 fps is smooth, but runs 4% faster than NTSC, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch.
Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.
Isn't all of that no problem anymore since blurays are natively 24 fps?
If the plan is to air TNG-R in syndication, they'll need 30 fps for Broadcast in the U.S. The networks I work for air everything 1080i 59.94.
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Old December 15 2011, 11:25 PM   #1383
Captrek
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Warp Coil wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
captrek wrote: View Post
Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.
Isn't all of that no problem anymore since blurays are natively 24 fps?
If the plan is to air TNG-R in syndication, they'll need 30 fps for Broadcast in the U.S. The networks I work for air everything 1080i 59.94.
BluRays support both 24fps (1080p/24) and 60fps (1080p). TNG was made for TV, so my guess is that it was filmed at 30fps and the BluRays will be 1080p. 1080p/24 is generally used for movies.
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Old December 16 2011, 04:20 PM   #1384
JJohnson
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

That would be why my copy of Voyager makes Chakotay sound a much higher pitch than I remember...I got PAL versions. No wonder. I can't wait for Blu-Rays so I can hear them at the correct speed and pitch.
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Old December 16 2011, 06:12 PM   #1385
The Laughing Vulcan
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

captrek wrote: View Post
Rudolph the Red Nosed Vulcan wrote: View Post
PAL regions run at 50Hz electricity, 50 fields per second which equates to 25 fps on PAL TVs. Rather than the maths that makes 24 go into 30, it's far more convenient to just display the extra frame every second. Of course some people do use all sorts of magic, 2:3 pulldown and whatnot to make 24 go into 25, but that results in blended frames, judder, and ghosting, but maintains the original runtime and the correct audio pitch, whereas native 25 fps is smooth, but runs 4% faster than NTSC, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch.
Actually, 2:3 pull down is a technique for converting 24fps to 30fps. I don't think there is a similar process for converting to 25fps.
That's the danger of knowing a little and not enough to start spouting jargon.

There definitely is something used to standards convert NTSC-PAL without speedup. I've watched far too much anime released in the UK and have experienced the blended frames, judder and ghosting that results from forcing 24 frames (or 30) into 25.

Usually they average out the frames, so that you get some blending (it looks like one frame overlapping the next), and it's pretty smooth, if at the lower resolution of NTSC 480i scaled up to 576i it's still soft.

The cheapest conversion, and the one I hate the most, is where they simply repeat the 24th frame to create the 25th. The runtime is maintained, the audio untouched, but the video looks like jerkovision, with pans and scrolls jumping once a second.

Here's a wiki on it

I go cross-eyed halfway down the page...
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Old December 17 2011, 11:36 AM   #1386
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

captrek wrote: View Post
TNG was made for TV, so my guess is that it was filmed at 30fps and the BluRays will be 1080p. 1080p/24 is generally used for movies.
TNG was shot 24fps for the live action portions. 40 seconds into the promo, it tells us to expect 1080p/24 (or technically, 23.976)
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Old December 17 2011, 11:40 AM   #1387
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Just noticed this on the Amazon page for the Next Level disc:

Special Features
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Next Level Promo
- Star Trek Padd - iPad App Promo spot
- Star Trek - The Next Generation teaser promo

Next Level Promo (the one we're all familiar with):


iPad App Promo spot (also already available):



So, it looks like all we're going to get that's new in the way of special features is probably a Season 1 promo of unknown length -- there doesn't seem to be a VFX featurette (on this disc anyway.)
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Old December 17 2011, 12:31 PM   #1388
gaghyogi49
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

According to the listing of the Blu-ray on the official German Paramount page, the sample disk will indeed include a promo trailer for TNG Season 1:

http://www.paramount.de/Programm/1875/
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Old December 19 2011, 12:10 AM   #1389
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

The Festivus Toad wrote: View Post
There was one for Voyager that went around.
Yeah it was an anniversary special that had "Ultimately human" a combination of DS9/Voyager bloopers that IIRC never turned up anywhere but Youtube afterwards.

Though bizarrely every time I've seen it since I've only seen the Voyager bloopers with the DS9 ones edited out of it, so either it did make it to a Voyager DVD release or a rabid Voyager fan couldn't take it that the DS9 bloopers were funnier and got rid of them!

(And they were, IIRC, Sisko telling Q that he'd ravish him and tripping up over his raised office door ledge with Riker vs Janeway saying " contact Star Trek" instead of Starfleet or something)

gaghyogi49 wrote: View Post
According to the listing of the Blu-ray on the official German Paramount page, the sample disk will indeed include a promo trailer for TNG Season 1:

http://www.paramount.de/Programm/1875/
Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.
Its not a fan-friendly experience, they had the opportunity to go through all the footage, cut out scenes, bloopers etc and give the fans many extras, but they just want to do the bare minimum they can to maximise their profits.

Get with the program folks, this is just a money making scheme, not some fan experience chock a block with unseen nuggets.

That might come in 10 more years if they figure they can make some more money off of us...
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Old December 19 2011, 12:21 AM   #1390
Harvey
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Of course they're out to make money. But painstaking work to re-composite each visual effects and (only when the original doesn't hold muster) re-creating the effects in HD is hardly a cash grab or "the bare minimum."
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Old December 19 2011, 12:33 AM   #1391
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

I think it's just the fact that finding the 'nuggets' would largely be an inexpensive side effect of doing the required work, certainly cheaper to index it all then, than go back again later. Accessing the vaults should be a one time process.
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Old December 19 2011, 01:26 AM   #1392
Harvey
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

And who says that stuff won't be on the season sets? This 4-episode release is just a preview to generate some buzz (and some money) before a whole season is ready for release.
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Old December 19 2011, 01:56 AM   #1393
sojourner
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post

Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.
This really illustrates a lack of understanding in what is being done for the blueray edition.
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Old December 19 2011, 02:11 AM   #1394
ATimson
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

Rarewolf wrote: View Post
I think it's just the fact that finding the 'nuggets' would largely be an inexpensive side effect of doing the required work, certainly cheaper to index it all then, than go back again later. Accessing the vaults should be a one time process.
There's finding it... and then there's paying lawyers (and participants) for clearance.
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Old December 19 2011, 02:31 AM   #1395
Dick_Valentine
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

sojourner wrote: View Post
Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post

Then I'll reiterate what I've said since we found out they weren't remaking the SFX, this is a job done on the cheap to make some money.
This really illustrates a lack of understanding in what is being done for the blueray edition.
And that completes your RDA of patronising for today, nice to hit your targets, isn't it?

I do know what is going on, but compared to the rescanning and re-compositing that they're doing, fishing us out a few deleted scenes and a few bloopers isn't going to be a huge undertaking but doesn't seem to be part of their modus operandi.

Giving us a few extra trinkets might tempt those like me who aren't exactly tempted by 1980s filming looking better through HD ....
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