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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 14 2011, 06:41 PM   #121
Borjis
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

If I'm not mistaken ImageG did indeed shoot all of the external space ship shots on film during most of the series.
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Old September 14 2011, 06:53 PM   #122
Savage Dragon
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I wouldn't mind a combination of new and old. Use the original film elements of the Enterprise but replace some of the "ship of the week" shots with something new when appropriate.
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Old September 14 2011, 06:55 PM   #123
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I think all elements were shot on film. Spaceships in front of bluescreens, matte paintings, explosions, all shot on film. But they composited them together on video.

But the interview at the beginning of this thread says that they were composited on film, too.

This interview: http://postfifthpictures.com/2010/02...ek-tng-editor/ seems to imply that they were even composited on film, but that the editing took place on video/electronically.
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Old September 14 2011, 07:31 PM   #124
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

I wonder how the opening credits will look. It wouod be interesting to see if they tweaked the person walking by in the observation lounge. I love that shot.
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Old September 14 2011, 08:45 PM   #125
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Maybe they could have the person in the observation lounge doing a different thing in every episode. Waving, dancing, cartwheels, having a party...
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Old September 14 2011, 09:04 PM   #126
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

IF the model work is on film then it would be cheaper, easier and better to recomposite it all in HD. It would look far superior to cheap CGI!

That doesn't mean there should be nothing new. For example, the low quality planets can be replace. When the enterprise is orbiting planet bitmap, they can just replace planet bitmap with planet cgi

Planet Bitmap
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...arsenal066.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...rsenal024a.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...gelone010a.jpg
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Old September 14 2011, 09:28 PM   #127
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

The FX from 11011101 would also be great in HD assuming they are on film!
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Old September 14 2011, 11:16 PM   #128
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Honestly, I'd imagine that they would replace all the VFX for the sake of consistency. Especially since there's only so much footage of the various models to go around and one can really tell the difference between them.
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Old September 15 2011, 02:14 AM   #129
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

bullethead wrote: View Post
Honestly, I'd imagine that they would replace all the VFX for the sake of consistency. Especially since there's only so much footage of the various models to go around and one can really tell the difference between them.

This is the best bet...even if it wasn't to be consistent for the image g/post group fx and ILM fx, it would be to make the 4 ft and 6ft model problem disappear.

A rather lengthy artcile on the actual FX editing...it looks like they are editing it on digital video (prob post 2nd season).

http://reocities.com/Hollywood/Set/1116/sfxartcl.html

Star Trek: The Next Generation does all of its visual effects on video tape, unlike the original series which posted on film. The reasoning behind that decision is that "Peter Lauritson, Bob Justman, and Rick Berman thought that (video tape effects) would be faster," states Robert Legato, Visual Effects Supervisor. "Bob Justman worked on the original show and they had a lot of problems with delivering on film." Legato explains that, "You have a built-in turn-around with the lab. You would do one shot and then have to wait for the next day to see it. If it was wrong, then you would have to wait a whole day to see it again., They said, you have to come up with a faster system. Tape was available. They didn't know much about it, but they knew THAT was the way to do it." And, "the way" was to go with The Post Group.

"The Post Group has been a bid part of the success of this whole show because they really supported us," says Gary Hutzel, Visual Effects Coordinator. "They came out early on and cut us a tremendous deal which allowed us to get (the bugs) worked out. (They also) provide us with all the gear that we need and their best people. And now, they've provided us with the digital bay. If we had had to work at another post- production house, it would have been difficult to achieve all that we have done."
Home for ST:TNG in the fourth season became The Post Group's new Digital Center in Edit Bay B. ST:TNG moved so it could work entirely in the digital format (D1) and abandon the fickle one-inch analog tape format. The reason ST:TNG was analog for three seasons is simple, the technology just did not exit. To bring this point home further, even now some of the equipment in the bay is still considered R & D (Research and Development) and came with no manuals.
The total list of the equipment in the bay is astounding; Abekas A84 (there are only three in the U.S. and the first and third one built are at The Post Group), Abekas a64, two Abekas A60's, two Sony D1 Digital Recorders, CMX 3600 Edit System, DFX Paint FX, ADO 2000 With Digital Interface, ESS-5 Still Store, Quantel Mirage (digital version) and Touchscreen Digital Routing System (The Post Groups' own system). This, of course, does not include the software that is necessary to make all this work. And, it takes all of that hardware and software to bring together all the various elements for ONE effects shot.
Now, after that heady list, here is another on for the types of shots that are composited in the editing bay; motion-control starship shots, transporter beaming in and our, force fields, viewscreens, computer monitor displays (many of the "raw" graphics are supplied by Michael Okuda, Scenic Artist (see issue #60) matte paintings, planets, starfields, nebulas, et. al. (oh, my!).
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Old September 15 2011, 02:43 AM   #130
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Star Trek: The Next Generation, like many shows of the 80’s and 90’s was shot on 35 mm film. 35mm film is a higher resolution than both standard and high definition. This means that the episodes can be transferred into standard or high definition without issue. Unfortunately for many shows with special effects, the editing process was done digitally with standard definition video. So the final copies of the episodes exist in standard definition video only. Many times shots with miniatures, green screen, matte shots and other effects were all transferred and edited in standard definition rather than edited more expensively with film.


http://kotwg.blogspot.com/2011/07/te...trek-next.html


So as I said, looks like they were not mastered into final FX with film…most of those shots existed only with digital video editing.

There is some question–I believe Mike Okuda raised the doubt-that the film negatives for FX still exist. The blogspot article does seem to suggest if they exist then much of the FX COULD be re-used…but if they do have them…they may want to re-do the FX anyway to make the ILM/post Group/Image G FX, and the 4-foot and 6-foot model work more consistent…also to reduce stock shot usage….which is what I prefer.
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Old September 15 2011, 03:26 AM   #131
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Hey RAMA, thanks for keeping the folks at TrekMovie in-the-know too. I'm Jeff O'Connor there unsurprisingly.
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Old September 15 2011, 04:10 AM   #132
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/ti...st/019399.html

???

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Old September 15 2011, 04:17 AM   #133
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Jeff O'Connor wrote: View Post
Hey RAMA, thanks for keeping the folks at TrekMovie in-the-know too. I'm Jeff O'Connor there unsurprisingly.
Yup...I sent the first bluray stories to Trekmovie before I saw them anywhere else...but who knows where they've been.

Rick Sternbach made a response there.

Perusing Memory Alpha...I didn't know a Constitution Class CGI ship was tested early on in STNG's pre-production life for use on the show...seems like it wasn't terrible...I wish the tape still existed as a curiosity for the Bluray.

Very limited CGI was used in the next four Star Trek films and Star Trek: The Next Generation, due to the expense of creating CGI images at the time, though producers Robert Justman and Edward K. Milkis investigated the feasibility of applying CGI to the new television show. Justman recalled, "Eddie Milkis and I investigated the possibility of generating everything on the computer. We had great reservations about it, because it still didn't have the reality. The surface treatment wasn't totally believable [rem: Justman is referring to a CGI refit-Constitution-class that was commissioned for evaluation]; we could have gotten by, it would have been acceptable, but it wasn't satisfactory." (Star Trek: The Next Generation USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D Blueprints, accompanying booklet, p. 14; Cinefex, Issue 37, p.10) Milkis declined the prospect of adopting CGI for another reason. He commented, "It was incredibly good, and it took some real thinking on our part, but ultimately we decided that if something ever happened to that company and they couldn't deliver, then we'd have nothing. We were very concerned about that and ultimately they did go out of business." (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, p.11)
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Old September 15 2011, 04:58 PM   #134
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

Very interesting.
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Old September 15 2011, 05:03 PM   #135
RAMA
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG-R discussion thread!

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
Very interesting.

Hmm I thought so...accidentally stumbled upon it.
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