The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[Salinga]

Maxwell Everett wrote:

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But, like all these compromises, it solves one problem and creates another. Which is why they're probably sticking to 1.33:1.

I wouldnt be so shure with 1.33:1, since for TATV they took the original TNG frame and expanded it left/right, cropped top/bottom, like I suggested for my framing:

http://jupiterforce.org/showthread.p...ll=1#post95163

The difference is, that I leave empty spaces left and right, to prevent too much cropping top/bottom.

I see many 4:3 tv shows cropped like that for 16:9 here on german TV, where this compromise framing is used with black bars left/right, so not too much is cropped away from the 4:3 picture (pretty much just a little more of the picture area that was usually hidden top/bottom when watched on the old tube TVs).

My suggestion looks like what I am already used to right now on TV when watching a old 4:3 show cropped/zoomed for 16:9 without loosing too much from the original frame. But with the advantage that actually additional material is shown left/right, the center is kept, and less is cropped top/bottom like they already do right now when showing an old show on 16:9.

[Maxwell Everett]

Salinga wrote:

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I wouldnt be so shure with 1.33:1, since for TATV they took the original TNG frame and expanded it left/right, cropped top/bottom, like I suggested for my framing.

Actually, your framing expanded it equally left and right to maintain the centerline... while the TATV shot was more like my 16:9 example (off-center), with more image on the left than right... but curiously, not using all the image on the negative that it could have:

[Salinga]

Maxwell Everett wrote:

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Actually, your framing expanded it equally left and right to maintain the centerline... while the TATV shot was more like my 16:9 example (off-center), with more image on the left than right...

I would say, it's a combination of both our suggestions. They show the area that I suggested (with more cropping top/bottom for 16:9), but moved the center to the left, like you suggest.

[NewHorizon]

My personal preference would be that they stick to the original presentation of the show, but the example posted on the AVS forums demonstrates that a true 16:9 extraction is possible...however, I am sure that in many cases they would have to do a lot of 'touch up work to remove crew members, gear, or edges of sets. It could potentially run into a huge expense when you have to employ artists to clean up each frame.

Seeing that the 16:9 extraction can be done though, it certainly does make me wonder just how many rough spots there would be. Perhaps it will be a consideration when they've had a chance to review all of the footage.

[AviTrek]

NewHorizon, were we looking at the same sample? Now that it's clear that the extra material is mostly to the left I don't see how you can say you can use that information without destroying the framing of every scene. Actors are placed in certain locations on the frame and if you just add material to the left it will shift everything off center and ruin the framing. Sure the information is there, but it would look terrible.

Regardless, CBS has confirmed the show will keep the original 4x3 ration, so no reason to continue to speculate about something that's not happening.

[Asbo Zaprudder]

They could still screw up the 4:3 reframing, of course, but I assume they know what they're doing.

[NewHorizon]

AviTrek wrote:

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I don't see how you can say you can use that information without destroying the framing of every scene.

Well, it's a good thing I never said that then.

All I said was that there was enough information to do a full 16:9 extraction, which many earlier guesses suggested would not be possible. I wasn't making any attempt to assess the quality of such an extraction, or the impact it would have on framing. I simply said, the info was there to do it.

I also said that my preference was to have the episodes in the aspect ratio they originally aired.

Regardless, CBS has confirmed the show will keep the original 4x3 ration, so no reason to continue to speculate about something that's not happening.

Once again, I wasn't speculating about whether or not they would be doing it. I was merely stating that the material was there to do a full 16:9 frame extraction. As long as we get the original aspect first, I'm fine...if they did spend some extra time afterward cleaning up the episodes for 16:9...I would be curious enough to take a look at them to see how they turned out.

[Salinga]

I hope they discussed and try a compromise framing like I put forth here (not full 16:9, but going into the direction). Because I expect a 4:3 frame to be cropped top/bottom by TV stations when shown to use as much of the 16:9 as possible. And if they already try to fill the 16:9 frame from the original material as much as possible, maybe not much or nothing is cut away later for broadcasts/streaming of the show, and the producers keep the control of how the show is shown somewhere outside the BluRay format.

[Captain Robert April]

I think a simple memo from CBS, "No cropping, they're supposed to be 4:3" should suffice.

[Captrek]

BTW, a pet peeve of mine is those messages at the start of pan-and-scan presentations that say, "This film has been modified from the original version as follows. It has been formatted to fit this screen." Sometimes it says "your screen" instead of "this screen." When that message shows up on my widescreen TV, it really pisses me off.

[AviTrek]

captrek wrote:

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BTW, a pet peeve of mine is those messages at the start of pan-and-scan presentations that say, "This film has been modified from the original version as follows. It has been formatted to fit this screen." Sometimes it says "your screen" instead of "this screen." When that message shows up on my widescreen TV, it really pisses me off.

Any movie in 1.85:1 or 2.39:1 would still need to be reformatted to fit a "widescreen" 16:9 TV monitor without black bars.

[BillJ]

Captain Robert April wrote:

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I think a simple memo from CBS, "No cropping, they're supposed to be 4:3" should suffice.

If CBS thought they could get outlets to pay more for a 16:9 version I think we'd get a 16:9 version.

[RAMA]

AviTrek wrote:

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Regardless, CBS has confirmed the show will keep the original 4x3 ration, so no reason to continue to speculate about something that's not happening.

Yeah the speculation is nice, but it pretty much was over after the news it is definitely in 4:3.

In further news, I started this thread not JeffriesTube8!!

[JJohnson]

I'm good with the 4:3, though putting it in 1.66:1 - that I wouldn't mind so much. As one poster either at this thread or the AVForums thread said, that was the format they used in the PAL regions, so at the very least, it would be safe to broadcast and release in that format, and still keep the framing or 'director's intent' safe. As for the FX, I seriously hope we don't get a carbon copy of the same 5 establishing ship shots and slavish reconstructions of the original ship shots. Some variety and upgrades would be most welcome.

[ATimson]

JJohnson wrote:

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I'm good with the 4:3, though putting it in 1.66:1 - that I wouldn't mind so much. As one poster either at this thread or the AVForums thread said, that was the format they used in the PAL regions, so at the very least, it would be safe to broadcast and release in that format, and still keep the framing or 'director's intent' safe.

Any 1.66:1 transfer must've been established by either stretching or cropping. The PAL transfer(s?) are conversions of the 4:3 NTSC masters; there isn't a "bigger" version they could have extracted that 1.66:1 area from.