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Old October 18 2012, 04:20 PM   #2581
Blamo
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

The changes to the Borg set are a good thing, though in my opinion don't go far enough. The Borg hull heal should be part of a three piece set bonus, forcing players to decide if they want to sacrifice a tanky shield for a hull/shield heal proc. As it is, the two-piece borg set + MACO/KHG shield will still be the favorable build for PvP. Two nerfs later and people will still choose the Borg set, that alone underlines how overpowered it is.

The set was a mistake from day one.

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
I like the borg visuals My favorite part of "The Scorpion" was that two-second shot of Borged-up Voyager.

Also, am I doing it right?
Hmm, as a PvPer it's not exactly what I'd pick, but then you're probably not thinking about PvPing.

Personally I'd recommend ditching atleast one RCS console (preferable two) and replacing them with neutronium alloy consoles. That should decrease incoming damage by quite a bit.

I'd also recommend dumping the bio-function console. Crew isn't really all that useful. If you can afford it, I'd stick at the very least one field generator into the science console slots (boosts shield capacity).

Hanover Fiste wrote: View Post
Supremacy. If you can't kill an escort with your cruiser without having the escort's equipment nerfed to death, the problem is you and your tactics.
Well flown escorts have trouble killing other well flown escorts, well flown cruisers don't even get a look in.

I'm an escort captain with a focus for PvP and I'll say this - My brethren and I are way way too tanky. Cruisers aren't remotely a danger and for the most part can be ignored except for when they're cross healing.



Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
You can put points into Driver Coils to be faster in sector space.

It's making the MACO engine nearly as fast as the Borg engine, and the Borg engine approach almost as fast as slipstream.

I think with a fully maxed driver coil and Borg engine equiped you can get her to Transwarp 30 almost during Slipstream.
Yeah, really helps when Doffing or doing tour the universe (especially if you can get someone to cast diplomatic immunity and marauder on you)
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Old October 18 2012, 04:20 PM   #2582
Scout101
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
I like the borg visuals My favorite part of "The Scorpion" was that two-second shot of Borged-up Voyager.

Also, am I doing it right?
Eh...

First off, go run the Assimilated mission and get the Borg Console. Adds additional set bonus to your setup. Or better yet, lets you get rid of the crappy borg shields and still carry the 3-piece bonus.

You're set up in an Oddy, which personally I'm not a fan of, but ok. Looks to be the generic version as well, so while you're set up for tanking, it's not real special, and takes about 3 solar systems to turn around in. You're a TAC captain, would suggest scrapping this build and going for an Escort, but your mileage/play style may vary.

Assuming you keep the Oddy/Tank build:

Not a fan of the Plasma weapons. At endgame, most people are geared towards the STFs, and Borg use Plasma, so everyone's geared up to protect against it. meaning you're useless in PVP, mediocre at the rest. Anti-proton is the best gear for that level, as the proc is crit. I don't care for mines, but again, depends on your style. Good that you stuck with a weapon type, but just swap for a better one IMO. Also at level 50, you should start having better stuff in there than Mk X commons.

The front torp and dual beam bank are fairly wasted in your setup. You can't turn to save your life, so I'd bet you don't fire those a whole lot after the very first exchange. You'd be better suited with just making it a beam boat, and loading up on the beam arrays. You're gonna be stuck broadsiding anyway, might as well get 7-8 weapons in range at once and do some damage. 3 beams front and back, maybe Quantum in the front and quantum mines in the back, if you want to not go all-beam. The damage on Quantum is nicer, and can't be shot down.

Once you get the Borg Console, you can lose the shield for something better, the 4-piece bonus isn't worth the loss of shielding.

Devices: eh, gotta be better stuff you can put there. Run the Devidian mission that gives you the subspace device, gives a nice stealth/damage resist that can be useful. Can't think of more offhand, but I know I pretty much don't have ANY batteries in those spots.

Eng: a spot the Oddy is killing you. Turns like shit, so you have all your consoles devoted to trying to turn. Bet it STILL doesn't turn, huh? Diminishing returns, as well, if I recall. Maybe keep the best two, lose the others. They're commons anyway, so not super-helpful. Put the Borg Console in one spot, and get a hull plating type for the other. Can't remember the names, but figure out what you're going to use the ship for, (like STFs) and then pick the plating that defends against just 2 energy types, but includes the one you want. There's one that does just Plasma and Tetryon I believe, which is what you want for STFs, Borg are plasma. Or if you play PVP, you want the one that is Phaser/Disruptor, or Antiproton/something. Don't bother with the 4-type protections, you lose power and trade for flexibility, and you really don't need to. Worst case, keep 1 for plasma and 1 for the other, and swap when you do STF or PVP.

SCI: Lose all 3, none are that great, and you have a Mk VI common in there. Costly, but the one that gives you the 17.5% shield capacity boost is the easy winner (field emitter?) Get a couple of those, maybe put the borg console in the 3rd spot and double up on the hull plating for ENG instead.

Tac: If you're a beam boat, lose the torpedo one and double up on the one that boosts your energy type. AntiProton, Phaser, or Disruptor are the nicest, but if you switch the Borg set to the JemHadar set, you get a nice boost if you use Poleron, so could go to that build instead for an additional punch.

Overall, right idea, just needs refining. But personally, I'd get out of the Oddy, maybe cruisers altogether. It's a DPS game, and as fun as being able to absorb damage or use SCI skills is, most of the missions are really about how fast you can wreck the bad guy, so hitting harder and faster is more useful. And lets you play more aggressively to beat the timers.
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Old October 18 2012, 05:21 PM   #2583
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

If you find yourself wanting more than one turn rate console, you're in the wrong ship, or you've got the wrong weapons for the ship you're in.
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Old October 18 2012, 09:43 PM   #2584
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Blamo wrote: View Post
...

Well flown escorts have trouble killing other well flown escorts, well flown cruisers don't even get a look in.

I'm an escort captain with a focus for PvP and I'll say this - My brethren and I are way way too tanky. Cruisers aren't remotely a danger and for the most part can be ignored except for when they're cross healing.

...
Agreed. I can hold my own against an escort for a while (in my Sovvy), but it is very rare that I destroy one, at least these days, and I've DPSed the hell out of my ship. When I fly my escort, my cannons usually just melt through shields.
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Old October 18 2012, 09:51 PM   #2585
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

All this talk of escorts makes me wonder again, I'll be promoted to Captain pretty soon, and feel it's difficult to decide what ship to go for, Cruiser (Galaxy class) or Escort (Defiant class). My gut tells me the Defiant will be the better choice, since it's lower hull can be compansated with shields, and it can carry dual cannons and is much more nimble to fly.
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Old October 18 2012, 10:14 PM   #2586
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Defiant, all the way.

If you can, spring for the C-store variant. I believe they call the captain-level one the "tactical escort refit." Then you get more console space, and the phaser quad cannons.

If you can spring for a bit more, get the LC-level +1 Saber (Gladius or somesuch) and steal its Impulse Capacitance Cell universal console. Then get the Commander-level Excelsior (Advanced Heavy cruiser?) and steal it's Transwarp Computer universal console. Put both of those consoles on your C-store Defiant Refit, and you'll love it.
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Old October 18 2012, 10:16 PM   #2587
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Hanover Fiste wrote: View Post
Defiant, all the way.

If you can, spring for the C-store variant. I believe they call the captain-level one the "tactical escort refit." Then you get more console space, and the phaser quad cannons.

If you can spring for a bit more, get the LC-level +1 Saber (Gladius or somesuch) and steal its Impulse Capacitance Cell universal console. Then get the Commander-level Excelsior (Advanced Heavy cruiser?) and steal it's Transwarp Computer universal console. Put both of those consoles on your C-store Defiant Refit, and you'll love it.

Hehe, only been playing the game for a short while now, don't have the dilithium yet for things like that.
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Old October 18 2012, 10:41 PM   #2588
TheRoyalFamily
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Diminishing returns, as well, if I recall. Maybe keep the best two, lose the others.
I was mostly just messing around with the four RCS modules, but when I tried it it wasn't too bad. If it stacks nicely, that setup gets +127.5% boost to turn, which makes the Oddy go from space barge to Luna (with a couple more weapons slots); the best you can get with mk xii purples is +160%, which is still less than base T5 escort.

But diminishing returns...not so good. I don't know, though - it's no escort (which is my main; like I said, this is just for messing around in a safe environment - STF Normal ), but it turns waaaay better. I don't know how to stat it precisely - I maxed out the skill for turning, so base stats don't mean a whole lot, and they always say 3 degrees/sec no matter what the ship on the stat page.

I'm going to try going for a more DPS approach with it, at least once - load it up with more dual phasers and turrets, get someone with cannon rapid fire in there, whatever those sci ship captains do. I mostly just want to imagine the looks on folks' faces when they see me in STF (Though my real goal is to get a fleet Horizon or something and roll into STF in one of those - but that's crazy expensive.)
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Old October 19 2012, 12:05 PM   #2589
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

I know I said I was done with this topic, but the Devs have issued an official statemen on the Borg set change that I think is of interest.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=149

Originally Posted by borticuscryptic
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...

The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.

After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).

The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.

Hence an imbalance came to pass.

Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.

By removing the Console from the Borg Space Set, we've brought a semblance of balance back to that equation. Now, in order to benefit from the set bonuses in the manner that was originally intended, players must use the Shield that was intended to be a part of the package as a whole.

This is not a change we undertook lightly, as we're always hesitant to take things away from players that have already earned them through a potentially time-consuming process. In fact, this is why we added the previous 4-piece bonus (Borg Tractor Beam) to the 3-piece set, instead of including it as one of the bonuses of the new "Alt Set." So that players that had already earned this equipment lost nothing, and did not have to go out and earn new equipment in order to get something they already had.

We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.

As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
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Old October 19 2012, 02:23 PM   #2590
Hanover Fiste
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

It was a load of "corporate solidarity" B.S. on the STO site, and it continues to be exactly that here. They can't program challenging NPC ships without giving them "I win" uber-weapons, the player base tries to adapt to it with an optimal build that goes against the "intended usage," so now they're nerfing popular equipment with a bunch of crap nobody wants, and pretending it's just an update to fix a problem.
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Old October 19 2012, 04:45 PM   #2591
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

As I said in that thread, I only use the Borg Retro + Console on my Assault Cruiser, so there shouldn't be much change for me. I usually only die under fire from groups of Escorts in PvP. Get two or three of those guys together, and it's difficult to maintain shield integrity for long.
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Old October 19 2012, 08:24 PM   #2592
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Maybe I'm just getting jaded in my old age, but the days when I would get up in arms over a nerf are long past.
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Old October 19 2012, 08:59 PM   #2593
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Yep, they've really screwed with us enough that it's tough to get outraged anymore. It's just expected that they'll not think it through, rush it out, and then abandon it without finishing it...
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Old October 19 2012, 09:07 PM   #2594
TheRoyalFamily
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

The borg set nerf doesn't really bother me. At least the logic there makes sense, if I don't happen to entirely agree with the decision.

No, what gets me is the dil tax to upgrading/getting doffs. It makes little sense from where I sit, other than perhaps a dil sink. But now, barring other changes to the doff economy yet to be announced (the doff grind would be a lot less important if starbase improvements were scaled to fleet size, for example), you have to grind to grind to grind. STO is already pretty lacking in content; I imagine the reason most play after a month at top level is that shooting things with spaceships is so damn fun, and there aren't a lot of alternatives at the moment. And unlike a lot of the other changes we've seen so far, there has been no official even half-explanation as to the reasoning, as far as I know.
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Old October 19 2012, 11:17 PM   #2595
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Re: Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

syberghost wrote: View Post
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
You can put points into Driver Coils to be faster in sector space.

It's making the MACO engine nearly as fast as the Borg engine, and the Borg engine approach almost as fast as slipstream.

I think with a fully maxed driver coil and Borg engine equiped you can get her to Transwarp 30 almost during Slipstream.
Also, the new Chimera is just naturally faster in sector space. When combined with the above, it's really fast.
Yeah, in addition the slipstream transwarp velocity on both my Odyssey and Chimera-class starships were hitting at least 34.17 without the set engines.
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