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Old September 4 2011, 11:12 PM   #31
judexavier
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

I had another thought (scary), what if you tried exaggerating
some of the features in the Church ship, (rather than minimize them) like making the entire ventral shape of the 2ndary hull a cutout, right up to the deflector structure.
I'm also intrigued with that idea about the nacelle scoops (the "viper" idea)...

Anyway, I need to shut up and let you get back to it.
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Old September 6 2011, 07:24 PM   #32
MadMan1701A
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Science Officer wrote: View Post
One last attempt. In this one I've increased the undercut and changed the curvature of the spine.
Cheers,
S.O.
Yep, I like that better, but it's still really close to they way I already have it.

YARN wrote: View Post
It's a significant improvement over the nuPrise, but that's kind of like saying that it's better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I'd like to see you play with the shapes more. I think you can keep the sort of identifiable look of the nuPrise as a refit and make more ambitious changes to it.

At any rate, it's always fun to see variations on a theme.

The tail (back end of the secondary hull) seems a bit too long.

The neck looks much better, but it would be nice to see it move a bit forward...

Maybe a (partially) convex deflector dish (rolling with the metaluna vibe)?
I did think about having a convex cover over the dish, but I thought that would make that area stick out even more.

judexavier wrote: View Post
Oh what the hell.
I know, perhaps a bit too...traditional?
(The word "REFIT" stuck in my head...)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...r/WIP014-2.jpg

Being more serious, for the dome guts, what about revisiting
that earlier Church sketch, with the cool exotic looking "reverse turbine" structure? For some reason, that seemed more "bussard/matter-sucking" than what they ended up using.
That's awesome. It kind of reminds me of my Defiant, though.



The concave look is a great idea... I think I'm going to go that way.


judexavier wrote: View Post
I had another thought (scary), what if you tried exaggerating
some of the features in the Church ship, (rather than minimize them) like making the entire ventral shape of the 2ndary hull a cutout, right up to the deflector structure.
I'm also intrigued with that idea about the nacelle scoops (the "viper" idea)...

Anyway, I need to shut up and let you get back to it.
Hmm, you feel like sketching that out? I'm not sure how the hull would look that thin in the bottom. But, for another ship, though...

Later guys...
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Old September 6 2011, 09:20 PM   #33
Science Officer
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

It's closer because it seems that a number of posters like a large undercut. But I'm still attempting to fix the "droop" that I see on the rear 50% of the hull. To me the straighter, steeper spine and the massive undercut just don't work. It's obvious when you flick between your original design and my hack.

I've also had a look at the torpedo bay. To me it's a little too TMPish. I think that existing contours of the neck offer you the chance to widen the bay without having to make it so much taller. Image below...



I'd make the back of the bay all the way to that step flush against the neck. Probably introduce a panel line to the top of the bay like you see on the bottom - keep them horizontal. The aim would be not to introduce height at the front, just change it from 2 launchers to 4 - otherwise why would you bother refitting it?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see where you take your design next.

Cheers,
S.O.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:33 PM   #34
JES
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Is this supposed to be the AU version of TMP-era Enterprise, or more like the equivalent to the 2265 upgrade?

I'm liking how the torpedo launcher is blending with the neck. I would personally suggest adding an additional one or two torpedo launchers above the sensor dome, similar to the original Enterprise. I feel that is what should have been done in the first place, because it is here that there is plenty of room for the weapons and magazines, and they are relatively safe from getting heavily damaged.

At the very least, I would also add two single phaser turrets on the aft similar to how many Constitutions have them mounted (such as your Defiant), so that she no longer has the weakness of having little aft firing capabilities.

I'm also wondering how the nacelle pylons would look if they had a bit of a curve (from the side view; I'm not thinking about them curving upwards).
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Old September 9 2011, 09:40 PM   #35
publiusr
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Just a point of clarification--I wasn't talking about the under cut, the scalloping out of the region near the edge of the saucer--I think that it is good that that has been flattened out. I was refering to the blocky sensor boxes near the lower sensor dome. In the refit, the dome is prominant and the blocky boxes are small. In JJ, the boxes seem to dominate, and ruin the lower dome structure's flow...
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Old September 12 2011, 01:15 PM   #36
MadMan1701A
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. "Real Life" stuff keeps happening...

Science Officer wrote: View Post
It's closer because it seems that a number of posters like a large undercut. But I'm still attempting to fix the "droop" that I see on the rear 50% of the hull. To me the straighter, steeper spine and the massive undercut just don't work. It's obvious when you flick between your original design and my hack.

I've also had a look at the torpedo bay. To me it's a little too TMPish. I think that existing contours of the neck offer you the chance to widen the bay without having to make it so much taller. Image below...



I'd make the back of the bay all the way to that step flush against the neck. Probably introduce a panel line to the top of the bay like you see on the bottom - keep them horizontal. The aim would be not to introduce height at the front, just change it from 2 launchers to 4 - otherwise why would you bother refitting it?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see where you take your design next.

Cheers,
S.O.
Well, the ship in the movie only has 1 launcher there, so I was going to upgrade it to a dual launcher. 4 might be a little overkill.

JES wrote: View Post
Is this supposed to be the AU version of TMP-era Enterprise, or more like the equivalent to the 2265 upgrade?

I'm liking how the torpedo launcher is blending with the neck. I would personally suggest adding an additional one or two torpedo launchers above the sensor dome, similar to the original Enterprise. I feel that is what should have been done in the first place, because it is here that there is plenty of room for the weapons and magazines, and they are relatively safe from getting heavily damaged.

At the very least, I would also add two single phaser turrets on the aft similar to how many Constitutions have them mounted (such as your Defiant), so that she no longer has the weakness of having little aft firing capabilities.

I'm also wondering how the nacelle pylons would look if they had a bit of a curve (from the side view; I'm not thinking about them curving upwards).
Thanks. I do plan to add rear phasers, probably in similar places to where they were on the others.

Not sure about the curved pylons, but there was a sketch in the "Art Of" book that showed that they were originally going that way, instead of bending them like they did.

publiusr wrote: View Post
Just a point of clarification--I wasn't talking about the under cut, the scalloping out of the region near the edge of the saucer--I think that it is good that that has been flattened out. I was refering to the blocky sensor boxes near the lower sensor dome. In the refit, the dome is prominant and the blocky boxes are small. In JJ, the boxes seem to dominate, and ruin the lower dome structure's flow...
Gotcha. I kind of liked the smaller dome, myself... the one on the original refit was pretty big.

Still having trouble thinking up an idea for the guts of the nacelles... I liked the idea of the concave fins like in the original sketch, but then that leaves a while lot of empty room in there.

Later, guys...

-Ricky
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Old September 14 2011, 09:57 PM   #37
JES
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Well, if you're going in the direction of the actual refit, then I think you may want to take a look at these, seeing as these for me are the most memorable attempts to do so:
"http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=168#/d22hdbf"
"http://madeinjapan1988.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=/&offset=192#/d1xdg21"
"http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/screenshots/File/104359/"
I think that taking a good look at these will help give you some ideas, specifically for the nacelles.

I personally like madeinjapan1988's design the most, and IMHO is probably a very good direction to head in. I specifically like the curve of the belly of the engineering hull and the way that the nacelle pylons curve.
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Old September 19 2011, 04:05 PM   #38
MadMan1701A
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Sorry for the late reply.

Yeah, those are neat. I really like alot of what MadeinJapan1988 does, but I don't know how well his designs would look in 3D, with the swoopy lines and stuff.

I'm having a problem, though, and I might need some help. I've been sketching warp nacelles all weekend, and nothing I do looks right. Really, the the only thing I really want to keep is some sort of dome in the front, and the fins. I'm almost leaning towards a re-design of the Enterprise E nacelles, but I don't know.

Ideas?

-Ricky
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Old September 19 2011, 11:47 PM   #39
sojourner
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

I hear ya. The most difficult part for me is nacelles. I usually go through 3 or 4 designs before I find something I like and even then am never fully satisfied. In fact, the ship I just posted on friday will probably get new nacelles as the ones posted are bugging me no end.

When you say "dome in front", do you mean a literal dome shape, or just a red bussard of some kind?
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Old September 20 2011, 12:03 AM   #40
Johnnymuffintop
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Maybe you could get some inspiration from the rather low quality design I tried to work up before we new exactly what the JJPrise looked like:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs44/f/20...yMuffintop.png
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Old September 20 2011, 12:40 AM   #41
MadMan1701A
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

sojourner wrote: View Post
I hear ya. The most difficult part for me is nacelles. I usually go through 3 or 4 designs before I find something I like and even then am never fully satisfied. In fact, the ship I just posted on friday will probably get new nacelles as the ones posted are bugging me no end.

When you say "dome in front", do you mean a literal dome shape, or just a red bussard of some kind?
Well, I don't know what I want, is the problem. I really like the round shape of the existing ones, and the big sphere on the front.

Having said that, I keep looking at my Enterprise E model here on my desk...

Johnnymuffintop wrote: View Post
Maybe you could get some inspiration from the rather low quality design I tried to work up before we new exactly what the JJPrise looked like:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs44/f/20...yMuffintop.png
Yeah, I remember when you were making those a while back. I like the front end of that refit one alot... there's room in there for some complicated shapes, for sure.

Going to go draw some tonight, while watching SyFy.
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Old September 20 2011, 01:15 AM   #42
sojourner
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

The Ent-E nacelles remind me of coffins.
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Old September 20 2011, 02:09 AM   #43
MadMan1701A
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Hmm... Yeah, I guess I can see that.
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Old September 21 2011, 02:06 AM   #44
JES
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Hmm... I actually kind of like the front of the refit. I think that it gives her a distinctive look.

Though I guess it kind of depends on whether this is supposed to be the AU version of the refit, or just an upgrade.

Maybe you could give her nacelles similar to the original, but more rounded/curvaceous, or give her bussard collectors that recall the look of the original refit, but more dome shaped in overall shape.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:58 AM   #45
MadMan1701A
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Re: The STXI Enterprise... REFIT!

Well, I think I'm starting to gravitate back to my original idea, of just changing the guts out of the domes, and leaving the rest of the nacelles the same... more an upgrade, than an entire refit.

Of course, the secondary hull got totally switched out, but I was figuring that was because they had a new Engineering design they were trying out.

Another thing i was thinking of was the main deflector... since I'm going to be making the Nacelle domes Red/Orange again, maybe the deflector should be Yellow/Gold, like the low power one on the real Refit?

I was also thinking of giving it the name of another Constitution class ship, so the Enterprise would have a modern ally. I think it would be neat to see them both together.

What do you guys think?

-Ricky
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