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Old October 3 2011, 02:40 AM   #1216
Admiral_Young
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I don't mind DiDio...used to love his 20 questions session on Newsarama before DC went through their huge editorial change and DC Ent was created. Now he seems to interact less with the fans than he did before. He has Berman and Braga type hatred with some fans.
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Old October 3 2011, 03:03 AM   #1217
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I see over at Deadline that he was considered to be in big trouble and expected to lose his job over the summer of 2008. Things have certainly turned around.
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Old October 3 2011, 05:54 AM   #1218
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Does anybody know when the digital comics from the first week will be a dollar cheaper?

Will it be this Wednesday?

Also, I suggest opening a new DC thread this week for month two so new readers will find it easier to get on board.
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Old October 3 2011, 03:33 PM   #1219
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I finished up my weeks reads by polishing off Firestorm and Jonah Hex.

Fury of Firestorm #1 - the only book of the relaunch I bought that I was not satisfied with. First their both back in high school, the same school at that. Second, the contrived racial tension written into the characters. Lame. It's 2011, not 1970, but I guess that's what happens sometimes. The art was good and tease about how Killer Frost is going to apparently be linked to the Firestorm(s) is nice. Apparently there have been other Firestorms, or tests at least? It looked like a flashback showed 4 other "test subjects" as having experimented with the Firestorm matrix. Really don't know if I'll be back for issue 2.

All Star Western #1 - This tale of Jonah Hex in 1880's Gotham was a good read. Smart they kept the creative team from "old" DCU as they still have 'it'. Liked the art and the pseudo-Sherlock Holmes style narrative going on with Arkham. I'll for sure be getting issue #2. I'm wondering if at some point the title will have back-up features or split page count duties with say Scalphunter? It is after all All Star Western not Jonah Hex.
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Old October 3 2011, 04:15 PM   #1220
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Orders for second issues of the relaunch may be up from the first issues in many cases:

It’s something I’ve been hearing from a number of retailers, but it seems to have momentum now. As a result of the sellouts, the second printings and the availability of day-and-date digital purchases for those whose shops had no print copies of the first issues available, I understand that it is quite possible that, in a reversal of usual practice, orders for DC comic books in October, pretty much across the board, may be increased on initial orders from September.

For large launches, publishers can usually expect retailers to order around 50-60% of their issue one orders for the subsequent issue, in the knowledge that speculators, the curious, those who didn’t like the comic and those who are now waiting for a collection won’t return. It’s why a second issue can be rarer and more valuable than that the first and it’s built into sales expectations. But in this case, the opposite is happening.

Returnability is also a helpful factor, retailers have been able to order high in the knowledge that for a relatively small fee, the comics can be returned to DC. Of course, this didn’t stop many of the books vanishing from the shelves.

Nevertheless the implication is that, just as DC are now expected to take the market share top spot away from Marvel in September, so they may well keep it in October…
DC Comics Issue 2 Orders To Outstrip Issue 1 Orders In Many Stores

He brings up something interesting: that direct retailers may be placing larger initial orders because of competition from the digital editions - some readers who come in to find the shop sold out may not return a second time to check on re-orders, but simply buy the sold-out title on the Internet in the interim.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; October 3 2011 at 04:53 PM.
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Old October 3 2011, 06:19 PM   #1221
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

That can easily backfire, though. I don't even intend to continue buying half of the books that I bought last month. A large bulk of the sales were people giving the books a chance and deciding which ones they wanted to keep reading. Sales on plenty of books are going to plummet like a rock (I'm looking at you Red Hood and the Outlaws)
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Old October 3 2011, 07:46 PM   #1222
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Dennis wrote: View Post
Okay, I don't get it. All the fussing about Didio making trouble with his remark about Crisis, and when I finally read it, it makes complete sense and there's nothing a reasonable person could find incendiary in it:

For those in crisis over Crisis, let me clarify. The topic of Crisis was much discussed among the editors and talent working on The New 52. With so many characters and histories restarting, major events like Crisis are harder to place when they work for some and not for others. (that was one of the problems coming out of the original Crisis). While we are starting aprx five years into our heroes' lives, we are focused on the characters present and future, and past histories will be revealed as the stories dictate. Yes, there have been "crisis" in our characters lives, but they aren't exactly the Crisis you read before, they can't be. Now, what this means for characters seen and unseen......well, that's the fun of The New 52, infinite stories, infinite possibilities, with the best yet to come.
That's pretty much the way I've understood the relaunch to work - it's the way it makes sense, and the approach looks pretty well thought out to me - those events which work for the new versions of the characters may be brought into continuity when they serve story purposes, and other things won't. It certainly seems like a more flexible approach than the theory behind COIE, so they've learned a little in 25 years.

Bleeding Cool compares the glitches with stuff in the relaunch to debugging a computer program - "These things are mindbogglingly complex, and big relaunches always have consequences that go unnoticed until you get the thing out there into the world and people start actually using it for awhile" - which, as someone who's worked as a programmer, makes a lot of sense to me too.
See, this is why I think he should--yes, I said should-- have used REBOOT rather than RELAUNCH. For all intents and purposes it IS a reboot as much more has been started at the beginning than has continued.

A reboot, to me, means starting over. What has happened before hasn't happened. That doesn't mean it can't not have happened, it just means don't assume it has.

relaunch, to me, means a continuation with a fresh coat of paint. Things are carrying on from the past. Like the new Dallas that's coming out. It's not a reboot. It's a relaunch of an old franchise. And then you run into these problems of what has "happened"--again, not that it really matters much in terms of the present, but fans want to know.

Just call it a reboot. And you're starting 5 years into the lives of the heroes. None of the books I read would be different. Not even the Batman of Green Lantern books.
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Old October 3 2011, 11:15 PM   #1223
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Yes, except that while you can make the case for that definition of "reboot," your definition of "relaunch" is a personal one. It has no precise meaning as regards this kind of thing.

The reason for not calling it a reboot - beyond that being a pretty negative term to most fans of anything in popular culture - is that it suggests that everything is being reset from zero. That is far from the case here. How much each character will change varies, and a lot of it has yet to be determined. I don't know what other descriptions might have been considered for this, if any, but if the choice was simply between "reboot" and "relaunch" then they chose thoughtfully.

As to the question of direct retailers miscalculating their second-month buys based on some titles not going over well - this is where their vaunted familiarity with their customer base ought to come in, hmm? Presumably they have some sense of which books people were excited by and which ones were duds, and will place their reorders accordingly.
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Old October 4 2011, 01:04 AM   #1224
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

If it was a true reboot then books like Green Lantern, Legion of Superheroes, and Batman would have started from scratch like the rest of the universe seems to have done. I think this is why they have chosen to call it a relaunch. It's a relaunching of their universe with new number one's and new takes on some of their characters. Simple as that.
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Old October 4 2011, 01:20 AM   #1225
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Dennis wrote: View Post
Yes, except that while you can make the case for that definition of "reboot," your definition of "relaunch" is a personal one. It has no precise meaning as regards this kind of thing.
Agreed. And I think that's a part of the problem... well, it's not a problem, things are selling well. I think it's the "continuity" problem...




Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
If it was a true reboot then books like Green Lantern, Legion of Superheroes, and Batman would have started from scratch like the rest of the universe seems to have done. I think this is why they have chosen to call it a relaunch. It's a relaunching of their universe with new number one's and new takes on some of their characters. Simple as that.
Why? Why would they have to start from zero? It didn't with COIE. It didn't with Zero Hour. And those events LITERALLY had the Universe starting over.

Why would you start from scratch if you were rebooting Batman? There are a lot of elements that work. Same for GL. Just continue to use those elements.

But a reboot means you have no OBLIGATION regarding which stories happened or didn't happen.

AND, if you're coming into the middle of things... as they have done in this reboot/relauch, it still means not starting from scratch.

90% of the DCU has been rebooted. Even Superman was rebooted. But they didn't start from scratch. They are using the elements that worked and recast them into a new universe.
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Old October 4 2011, 01:23 AM   #1226
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

More like elements that still made them money.
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Old October 4 2011, 01:24 AM   #1227
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
More like elements that still made them money.
Isn't that the definition of "worked"?



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Old October 4 2011, 01:26 AM   #1228
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I have some of the same questions you do Zoom, believe me pretty much nothing DC has explained or said about the New 52 makes sense to me. Selling out all the books is fine and dandy but it is going to be interesting to see how they do in month two and beyond. As I've stated from when this first broke, it seems DC just wanted to eat their cake. They were afraid of alienating a portion of their fan base while claiming this is all for new readers. To attract casual fans and people who have never picked up a comic book. It'd be interesting to see if there are any kind of stats that this has actually happened as the months go by.
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Old October 4 2011, 02:41 AM   #1229
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Apparently the upcoming Huntress mini-series will have eventual connections to Justice Society. Link.

First in-story hints of a multiverse? Or was the Earth-2 concept a false rumor? Or something else completely?
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Old October 4 2011, 02:47 AM   #1230
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Interesting...Paul Levitz is writing this.
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